Thought's on France's LE guns after Paris attacks w/pics

[Aim1]

Saw these two stories about the Paris attack and noticed 2 things. The first is that the first gentleman appears to have an M3 submachinegun (could be wrong), otherwise known as a 'grease gun' and the other has a bolt action rifle, on the ground, rather than being up in an elevated position. A bolt action rifle with no scope which will be a poor tool to have when the terrorists have an AK47.


Don't you think they'd have a more modern machine gun? And why would an officer with a bolt action rifle (mostly used by snipers) be on the ground?


Don't they have enough law enforcement weapons in France? Are they scrambling for weapons? And why wouldn't they utilize that sniper properly?

 

[hamp sandwich]

The first is a Beretta pm12. The second is a ruger mini14.

PM12 is an effective sub-mg. Simple and cheap. They probably don't have much need to upgrade.
The mini14, well, i don't get it...

 

[jgfrench]

Beretta M12 and Mini 14?

I think the sub-gun is a Beretta M12, which is about as good as any other 9mm sub-gun. I think the rifle is a Ruger mini-14. These are special French police full auto and 3 round burst versions, so pretty much the same as a M16, but they look less military.

Neither are bad choices for a 9mm sub-gun and a .223 carbine.

 

[jerkface11]

The beretta is one of the best looking sub guns ever made.

 

[4thPointOfContact]

The Mini-14 is a “Mousqueton AMD” which is French for carbine, and the “A.M.D.” stands for Armements et Moyens de Défense.

Basically, it's a Ruger AC556 with a custom stock in place of the folding one from Ruger. I suspect it was chosen to present a less military appearance in the hands of the French police.


Happy switch options are semi, 3-round and full-auto.

 

[Leanwolf]

Hamp Samwich - " ... The mini14, well, i don't get it... "

Why not?

L.W.

 

[Turftech1]

The Mini-14 is a “Mousqueton AMD” which is French for carbine, and the “A.M.D.” stands for Armements et Moyens de Défense.

Basically, it's a Ruger AC556 with a custom stock in place of the folding one from Ruger. I suspect it was chosen to present a less military appearance in the hands of the French police.


Happy switch options are semi, 3-round and full-auto.

I think it looks cool, but I like the C&R stuff. The wood and steel, and the stamp remind me of some late WWII military rifle, style wise. Definitely a less "black-gun" look.

 

[yokel]

The sling cutout is a distinctive feature.

French civilian Rugers are demilitarized versions of the rifle only; they do not fire and are intended to be used for collecting purposes!

The French Republic is a fine example of 'gun control', i.e. a state of affairs where firearms are a legal monopoly of the government forces. One side had smartphones on the evening of 13 November 2015 and the other side had AK-47s, suicide vests and hand grenades.

In France, as in so many other places, many people seem to have thought that reason and the good intentions of the majority were more important than firepower - they appear to be mistaken.

 

[dekibg]

" the first gentleman " looks like woman to me

 

[grter]

They look like very capable weapons to me.

 

[mf-dif]

I thought the same thing. Take the select fire function away from those guns. Ask yourself, would you select any of those to protect your family with the available options to US citizens?

I'd rather stick to an AR, Tavor, EVO Scorpion, etc.

 

[grter]

I would not see much difference. If you have lots of open land and long range shots give an advantage then an AR or Tavor may make a difference otherwise pick whatever feels best in your hands and you shoot better with.

 

[Deaf Smith]

I'd love to have that French wood mini-14 stock.

But France can keep France.

Deaf

 

[amd6547]

Yeah, that French Mini 14 stock looks great...Ruger ought to sell it.

 

[rcmodel]

Ask yourself, would you select any of those to protect your family with the available options to US citizens?

Yes, I would, and I have, I am.

My Mini-14 has never missed a beat in the 45 years I have owned it.

Target rifle accuracy is not necessary for a cop in the streets.
100% reliability is.

And the Mini-14's they have are probably a cut above the ones you can buy at Walmart!!

rc

 

[DougW]

I saw the French Police with Mini 14's in the early 80's near the Arch.

 

[barnbwt]

My thoughts? Is that subgunner sporting a faux-hawk and shooting Blue Steel toward someone off-camera? Really does not look like he expected to be doing this, on that day.

"The French Republic is a fine example of 'gun control', i.e. a state of affairs where firearms are a legal monopoly of the government forces. One side had smartphones on the evening of 13 November 2015 and the other side had AK-47s, suicide vests and hand grenades."
Maybe/yes. One account I read, was of a reporter who heard the blasts & shooting, and "of course" ran to the window to start taking cellphone footage (seriously? *sigh* ) only to see a number of ununiformed men with long shotguns running in that direction. Naturally, he assumed they were terrorists in his estimation, but I wonder if they weren't actually private arms of possible dubious legality being brought out for defense against the proverbial rainy day.

Supposedly, France actually does have a still-significant shooting contingent, though focused only on hunting/sport, of course. I'm sure that much like here, the anti-culture emanates from the dense cities and the fear of those housed in their ghettoes (well founded by this point).

TCB

 

[threefeathers]

Beretta PM 12 and Mini 14. Both very effective for their purpose. Each could have taken out the twerps. Training is the key to this.

 

[Phaedrus/69]

The Beretta is a fine SMG. I'd be very leery of the Mini, at least based on my experiences with my own P.O.S. Mini-14. I understand newer ones are improved but I'll stick with my AR.

 

[Ash]

Evidently, the French don't have problems with theirs. The GB I have has been flawless and it was surplussed after 20 years of service with the MS State Troopers.

 

[yokel]

"The French Republic is a fine example of 'gun control', i.e. a state of affairs where firearms are a legal monopoly of the government forces. One side had smartphones on the evening of 13 November 2015 and the other side had AK-47s, suicide vests and hand grenades."
Maybe/yes. One account I read, was of a reporter who heard the blasts & shooting, and "of course" ran to the window to start taking cellphone footage (seriously? *sigh* ) only to see a number of ununiformed men with long shotguns running in that direction. Naturally, he assumed they were terrorists in his estimation, but I wonder if they weren't actually private arms of possible dubious legality being brought out for defense against the proverbial rainy day.

Supposedly, France actually does have a still-significant shooting contingent, though focused only on hunting/sport, of course. I'm sure that much like here, the anti-culture emanates from the dense cities and the fear of those housed in their ghettoes (well founded by this point).TCB

The salient point is that law-abiding French civilians are deemed to have a no legitimate interest in combat for their own self-defense, maintaining the social order and serving the common defense.

Karl Popper's point bears repeating:

". . . we must not allow the distinction between attack and defense to become blurred. We must insist upon this distinction, and support and develop social institutions . . . whose function it is to discriminate between aggression and resistance to aggression." Karl Popper, "Utopia and Violence," in Conjectures and Refutations: The Growth of Scientific Knowledge (New York: Harper & Row, 1965).

 

[HoosierQ]

I would totally rely upon a mini-14 to protect myself and my family. 100%. The problem is that 1) the way the brass ejects makes being a good range neighbor very difficult unless one is in the right-most lane, and 2) the darn things are just about as likely to be banned as an AR although the standard 5-round mag is very popular in states like NY. If I lived in NY, a mini-14 would be my go-to carbine. Likewise, with the 5-round mag, it would make a good saddle gun.

I love the those French Para-military mini-14s!!! Somebody should make those stocks over here!

I believe those are the regular police. Those are probably carbines they either have in patrol cars or in police stations. I do suspect that more "elite" units, be they civilian or military, probably have different weapons if only because they'd share mags and parts with military arms etc. Just guessing though.

 

[ACP]

"My thoughts? Is that subgunner sporting a faux-hawk and shooting Blue Steel toward someone off-camera? Really does not look like he expected to be doing this, on that day."

1) it's a woman

2) that is not a mohawk hairstyle, it is simply cut short, like most military and police wear it

3) her "blue steel" look is not some model pose; she is likely looking at other evidence technicians a few feet away.

4) based on her kit, I'd bet she is out doing stuff like this most everyday, instead of typing on a home computer keyboard.

 

[TimSr]

Compared to what the average French steet cop carries, a Crossman CO2 pellet pistol is a step up.

 

[Jenrick]

Bear in mind, that France has a very different model of LE then we do here in the US. There are municipal police, which are in some places armed, in others not. There is the national police force (what is shown here), which is more like what we would consider LE in terms or gear and equipment. However like most other countries the long gun is a specialized item rather then a normal tool of the trade. The Gendarmerie is part of the military, and is actually armed an equipped as such by and large. It is responsible for a lot of the "tactical" function that we would except a local PD to be able to accomplish.

-Jenrick