Thoughts on Suarez International?
- Thread starter Balrog
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Plenty of threads on them over the years here.
Averageman
Member
It would seem he tends to look at things with a fresh perspective.
In many ways the community needs fresh ideas to keep progressing. The tried and true basic's of Col. Cooper will remain, but where do we go from there?
Obviously we progress, Suarez seems to try and do so.
In many ways the community needs fresh ideas to keep progressing. The tried and true basic's of Col. Cooper will remain, but where do we go from there?
Obviously we progress, Suarez seems to try and do so.
i have taken intro to defensive pistol, and rifle gunfight from them this year. i took the classes in the chattanooga tn. area. i really enjoyed both classes, and learned a ton. i am planning on going to another weekend of training in oct.
i would not hesitate to recomend their training.
i would not hesitate to recomend their training.
smince
Member.
I don't know your skill level, but the basic pistol class (is it DPS?) still offers a lot of good information even for a seasoned shooter. Who is instructing, if I may ask?
I have taken Extreme Close-Range Gunfighting, 0-5Ft Gunfighting, and the Kalashnikov Armorer's course from SI. I was also introduced to Tom Sotis/AMOK! (H2H/knife fighting courses) through SI.
I truly believe I've learned more through them in the last couple years than the rest of my 20-some odd years of shooting since I've been CCW.
(patiently waiting on the Suarez basher's...)
I have taken Extreme Close-Range Gunfighting, 0-5Ft Gunfighting, and the Kalashnikov Armorer's course from SI. I was also introduced to Tom Sotis/AMOK! (H2H/knife fighting courses) through SI.
I truly believe I've learned more through them in the last couple years than the rest of my 20-some odd years of shooting since I've been CCW.
(patiently waiting on the Suarez basher's...)
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Al Thompson
Moderator Emeritus
Agree that Suarez is moving forward. His blog is well worth reading and I plan to take a few classes. One of my good friends has trained extensively with Gabe and recommends him highly.
Shawn Dodson
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I was going take his "Zero to Five Feet" pistol gunfighting class on 9-10 Sept in Florence, SC, but I didn't register quickly enough and the class filled up.
I won't sit on my duff next time!
I won't sit on my duff next time!
smince
Member.
This was the most eye-opening course I've ever been a part of.
smince
Member.
...and there it is.
Only took 11 posts, too
smince
Member.
The story as I know it:
A writer for SWAT magazine attended two days of a 7-day Terrorist Interdiction class in 2005. From someone who was at the class:
A writer for SWAT magazine attended two days of a 7-day Terrorist Interdiction class in 2005. From someone who was at the class:
I remember the article. It was supposed to be a SWAT hatchet job, but Gabe says his business almost doubled after SWAT ran the article.
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I really wanted to attend a couple of his classes this year but finances have gotten a little tight right now.
I wanted to take defensive pistol and 0-5ft classes. I've read alot of his stuff on warrior talk and like how he thinks outside the box and gives different views than the tried and true methods.
I wanted to take defensive pistol and 0-5ft classes. I've read alot of his stuff on warrior talk and like how he thinks outside the box and gives different views than the tried and true methods.
David E
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I know nothing of that SWAT article and was not referencing it in my question.
I've heard that Suarez, depending on class skill/level, has you stand downrange, next to your target, while your classmate shoots it. Something about "Keeping the warrior edge" or some-such.
I do know that Hackathorn has you do this and had heard Suarez does the same.
Is this true or not? If true, does he still do it? If not true, then please feel free to correct that bit of apparent bad information.
ChuteTheMall
Member
I never heard of that happening, and I never saw it happening, and I never heard of anyone else claiming that it had even happened.
I've taken 6 of his courses over the last two years, everything from Defensive Pistol Marksmanship to 0-5 Feet Gunfighting, and there was never even one hint of anyone ever standing downrange. Not even close.
It's state of the art training, and the state of the art is always changing.
He has a website and a forum in case you need any direct information.
BullfrogKen
Moderator Emeritus
David E said:
At one time, Ken would do some drills - with very select classes - that had other students forward of the firing line. Those classes were nearly always restricted. They began as drills that were necessary parts of training for students that had specific duty obligations. Often they were military members, and sworn officers who were members of tactical teams. When he began putting those shooting drills into his cirriculum, even the "standard" officer didn't undergo that training.
As time went on, and as people often do, word of those drills Ken was doing spread. Under pressure Ken began to relax the restrictions on what classes and student base would participate in them. The original purposes behind the drills didn't get communicated well, and the community saw a sort of "one-upsmanship" develop to see who would be the boldest, and what school or instructor would push the envelope just a bit farther.
Not very long ago John Farnam had a conversation with Ken about where the situation had collectively led the training community. The last I know of the issue even Ken himself has pulled back on the classes he'll hold those drills, based on the composition of the students in the class, and even the specific drills he'll conduct in those classes.
230therapy
Member
HUH? I've never seen that in a course, nor heard of it. It was never done in the several classes I have attended.
It goes contrary to his range safety speech at the beginning of the course.
Overall, I'd say the training is pretty good. It depends upon the course. I found "Close Range Gunfighting" to be on par with most other "Level 2" courses. It had a few differences from the courses I have seen in that there was more movement while shooting and it included some point shooting.
smince
Member.
I've never seen it, but there are all sorts of rumors about Gabe/SI from various camps.
What swayed my decision was the material of the classes. I have a lot of prior experience, but at Shootrite I was going to have to start at the very bottom and take a succession of classes before I could get to any of the advanced level courses (BTW, I do understand some of the reasoning behind this [$$$]). I have read this is the case with other 'name' shooting schools.
Gabe was teaching Extreme Close-Range Gunfighting, one of his (at the time) most advanced level courses*. I simply emailed him my shooting experience to see if he thought I was OK. He told me "You should be fine in the class'. And I did pretty well.
I liked being able to start with SI on a level that was challenging rather than having to go through 'baby steps'.
IMO, Gabe's teaching style reminds me of listening to someone who has something really interesting to tell you and you want to listen. He was friendly and personable, but serious at the same time.
I have found this demeanor lacking in other instructors I've trained with.
*SI has since added some prerequisites for many of the Advanced courses.
I live about 30 miles from Shootrite and was considering taking training from Tiger McKee. At about the same time, I found out Gabe was going to be teaching about 45 miles away.
What swayed my decision was the material of the classes. I have a lot of prior experience, but at Shootrite I was going to have to start at the very bottom and take a succession of classes before I could get to any of the advanced level courses (BTW, I do understand some of the reasoning behind this [$$$]). I have read this is the case with other 'name' shooting schools.
Gabe was teaching Extreme Close-Range Gunfighting, one of his (at the time) most advanced level courses*. I simply emailed him my shooting experience to see if he thought I was OK. He told me "You should be fine in the class'. And I did pretty well.
I liked being able to start with SI on a level that was challenging rather than having to go through 'baby steps'.
IMO, Gabe's teaching style reminds me of listening to someone who has something really interesting to tell you and you want to listen. He was friendly and personable, but serious at the same time.
I have found this demeanor lacking in other instructors I've trained with.
*SI has since added some prerequisites for many of the Advanced courses.
benEzra
Moderator Emeritus
Caveat: I've never taken any of his classes, so take anything I say with with several grains of salt. But one thing he emphasizes in his writings is the integration of shooting with "getting off the X". I know he has conducted joint classes on occasion with some of the Dog Brothers on defense against edged weapons, using a lot of force-on-force training, and that seems like it would be a useful skillset. He also seems to be one of the go-to guys for a carbine class if you run an AK.
He is certainly very frank, and rather colorful, but he seems to be a good instructor. He hangs out over at Warrior Talk and you'll find a lot of his writings, and AAR's from various Suarez classes, over there.
He is certainly very frank, and rather colorful, but he seems to be a good instructor. He hangs out over at Warrior Talk and you'll find a lot of his writings, and AAR's from various Suarez classes, over there.
smince
Member.
And his blog, WarriorTalk News
www.warriortalknews.com
One thing about SI is that each of Gabe's instructors is very capable in their own right, and many have their own specialties they teach. There are specialists in point shooting, tactical medicine, various armorer classes, long-range rifle/sniper, etc.
www.warriortalknews.com
SI does teach AK-centric classes, but they can teach you how to run any rifle/shotgun/smg/pistol efficiently.
One thing about SI is that each of Gabe's instructors is very capable in their own right, and many have their own specialties they teach. There are specialists in point shooting, tactical medicine, various armorer classes, long-range rifle/sniper, etc.
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NCPatrolAR
Member
For some places it might be about money; but typically it is about the instructor knowing what the students know/should know. As an example; I recently taught an intermediate level handgun course here in NC. My prereq for the course was that you had to have completed a level 1 course from a recognized instructor. I had 3 guys that all cited training with the same professional instructor. When they got out on the line; they were so far behind the power curve, I had to stop teaching my intermediate material and spend the first day getting these guys up to speed.
Thats just one example. I've experienced it other times as an instructor and seen it quite a few times as a student in a class.
Been there done that.
I would HATE to be the student that shelled out big hard earned dollars at a course who couldn't maximize the use of the cadre because they were tied up with individuals who were obviously not prepared to meet the challenges of the curriculum.
My Son (he had taught for me for 5 years, in Canada) was asked to help out on a Swat program (in the US of A). He took half the class out to the range, pistol was the subject, these were going to be Swat Officers!
Ten minutes... UNLOAD AND SHOW CLEAR, HOLSTER. Back to the class room, dry fire, pistol handling, 101! Then after two hours, back again.
Swat/advanced? He said he was some nervous at first, the gun handling was not good.
Ten minutes... UNLOAD AND SHOW CLEAR, HOLSTER. Back to the class room, dry fire, pistol handling, 101! Then after two hours, back again.
Swat/advanced? He said he was some nervous at first, the gun handling was not good.
smince
Member.
Just attending a class from any instructor isn't enough. They still have to practice what was learned at their home range.
Admittedly, there were a couple of guys at 0-5 who shouldn't have been there. Gabe's not afraid to send someone home or at least make then sit on the sidelines and watch if they aren't up to speed. He doesn't believe in the other students not getting their $$$ worth.
That said, the progression of classes is how some schools/instructors build their student base. There have been a few classes I know of SI has had to cancel for lack of interest. Usually they are filled to capacity with a waiting list.
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