Thoughts on the PS90?

[OEF_VET]

The second is the dogmatic interpretation of this gun as a HD/ mall ninja rifle. It seems so obvious to me that this gun is better lumped in with Uzi's, H&K MP5's and other assorted bullet hoses. Please remember that Uzi's and MP5's are stupidly expensive guns so the P90's price is relative.

You are aware, of course, that the P90 (not to be confused with the PS90) was designed as a PDW, or Personal Defense Weapon, right? It was intended, from the beginning, to be used as a short-range, last-ditch, weapon for those folks who couldn't be carrying around a real rifle all the times. That kind of sounds similiar to most folks Home-Defense needs.

Semi-auto Uzi's and MP-5's aren't stupidly expensive, either. In fact, they cost less than, or as much as, a PS90. And their ammo is cheaper and easier to come by.

Now, I can order a full-auto P-90 if I want. Do I want to do so? No. But, if I wanted to do so, they are actually more expensive than a post-sample Uzi. Trust me, I own a post-sample Uzi.

Oh, and have you ever shot either an Uzi or an MP-5? Or a P90 for that matter? When used properly, they are all very accurate, and are not the least bit "bullet hoses." If you want a bullet hose, get a MAC-10.

Why can't the P90 be viewed as a "New age squirrel rifle", or an ergonomically designed small game gun for this generation?

Because, as I stated earlier, it was designed as a PDW, not as a squirrel gun. Of course, the AR wasn't designed as a varmint gun, either. But then, the only varmints I'd ever hunt with my AR would be the two-legged variety, and I pray to God that I never have to do that again. The fact is, there are several law-enforcement agencies within the U.S. who have purchased P90's, and issued them to their agents / officers. That goes a long way towards helping cement the image in the minds of most Americans that the P90 and PS90 are mil/LEO weapons, and not hunting guns. (Of course, there are also some LEA's who issue Win94's, which are still, to this day, associated with hunting, cowboys, and western justice.)

Sure, there might be a hunter or two dozen who uses their PS90 to hunt squirrel. Why not? It's their rifle, they can do as they wish. However, I doubt there are many folks who see it and think "Gee, ya know, that'd be a lot better for killing squirrels than my 10/22."

 

[MachIVshooter]

Think about it, the VAST majority of AR rifles are used for target or plinking. According to most of the advertisements, these rifles were milled from thirty tons of American steel to ensure a one shot finale to a hostage standoff!

News to me. Could've sworn AR recievers were made of aluminum.

First is the ammo cost. Compared to a .22Mag, or .22 Hornet, the ammo price falls in between the two

.22 Mag averages $8/50. .22 Hornet, roughly $25/50. 5.7x28mm is $30/50.

It's performance as a non-AP cartridge is basically a faster .22Mag

Faster? You sure about that? Remember, we are not talking SS190 here. This is about the watered down crap they sell to us lowly civilians who can't be trusted with AP ammo.

Why can't the P90 be viewed as a "New age squirrel rifle", or an ergonomically designed small game gun for this generation

An alien-looking plastik-fantastik $1,600 rifle that costs $0.060 every time you pull the trigger is not what most consider a squirrel gun.

Like I said before, take away it's high ROF capability and AP ammo, it is an expensive plinker at best. But if you like them, by all means, get one.

 

[Anteater1717]

"An alien-looking plastik-fantastik $1,600 rifle that costs $0.060 every time you pull the trigger is not what most consider a squirrel gun. "

i wish it was $0.06

until the gun gets in the price range of 200 its not going to be a squirrel gun

why dont they make one chamber in 9mm or .45 it seems like that would be a simmple change

it should be in 10mm though

 

[epijunkie67]

.22 Mag averages $8/50. .22 Hornet, roughly $25/50. 5.7x28mm is $30/50.

Where are you buying ammo? I've got an fn57 and a PS90 and I've never paid anywhere close to $30 for a box of ammo. The most I've ever paid was $22/50 and there are plenty of places now selling it for $18-19/50.

"It's performance as a non-AP cartridge is basically a faster .22Mag"
Faster? You sure about that? Remember, we are not talking SS190 here. This is about the watered down crap they sell to us lowly civilians who can't be trusted with AP ammo.

Yes, faster.
http://fivesevenforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=330
The 5.7X28 ammo develops similar speed as a 22 mag but does it out of a shorter barrel. There are actually half a dozen different loadings available to civilians and most of them are much faster than .22 mag when fired from the PS90

Now I can't speak for it's terminal ballistics. Part of the problem is the above mentioned variety of loadings. Getting hit with a 40 grain ballistic tip is going to be different than getting hit with a 36 grain FMJ.

 

[grendelbane]

Every one complains of the cost, both for the ammunition and for the carbine itself. Both are new, and pioneers always catch more arrows. Look at it like it was a gift, with 100k of various cartridges. Or an issue weapon. Then your perceptions might change.

If you reload, ammo starts becoming extremely cheap. Small charge of powder, cheap bullets, even the brass is starting to get a lot cheaper. Now a 9mm loaded with cast bullets might be cheap also, still, it won't shoot as flat, or as far, or with the terminal advantages of the 5.7 cartridge. The PS90 has a well designed brass catcher.

It is a good design for those who are slight in frame, or past their prime. Good for those who are recoil sensitive.

I am amused at those who compare it to the .22 Magnum. I suppose different cartridges are viewed differently in different areas. In my area, I believe the .22 Magnum is highly over-rated. Apparently, in many areas, it is highly under-rated. My next door neighbor, were he still alive, would have thought the 5.7 x 28mm to be about perfect.

The sight does leave a lot to be desired for indoors use. Then again, that is true for every sight I have ever used.

 

[mordrid52]

I am amused at those who compare it to the .22 Magnum

Here is a good thread over at Tactical Forums if you want to learn about the real world ballistics of the 5.7 round, not the FN marketing world ballistics. It contains a number of journal articles by prominent ballisticians (including Dr. Fackler) that can be looked up. DocGKR is Dr. Gary Roberts, a very well known ballistician who writes for the Journal of the International Wounds Ballistics Association.

 

[grendelbane]

I guess not everyone understands my sense of humor.

Where I live, you could stop at the local cafe and ask about every one's opinion of the .22 Magnum. For the most part, it would receive glowing praise. That is why I said I thought that it was over-rated in my area.

Other posters have made statements about the .22 Magnum that lead me to believe that they under-rate it. As is often the case, the truth lies between 2 extremes.

I am well aware of the 5.7's terminal ballistics shortcomings. I am also well aware of the PS90's advantages. Real life is full of trade offs. The recently deceased Colonel Cooper often wrote of the advantages of the .22LR handgun, for example.

 

[LiquidTension]

I also had no desire for one until I handled it. I liked the stock sight, though it was a bit dim. I really like the ergonomics, and the thing is tiny.

It's on the list to add to the collection, but not until it comes down in price a good bit.

 

[possum]

they might be cool, if i had one as an sbr, but with the 16" barrel, they don't do much for me. the main reason i don't even give them a good looking at is the simple fact that the ammo is really high and though i like guns, i like shooting them even more.

 

[rockstar.esq]

Dogmatic interpretation of press release:

"You are aware, of course, that the P90 (not to be confused with the PS90) was designed as a PDW, or Personal Defense Weapon, right? It was intended, from the beginning, to be used as a short-range, last-ditch, weapon for those folks who couldn't be carrying around a real rifle all the times. That kind of sounds similiar to most folks Home-Defense needs."

Actual product application getting slammed using aforementioned dogma:

"Because, as I stated earlier, it was designed as a PDW, not as a squirrel gun. Of course, the AR wasn't designed as a varmint gun, either. But then, the only varmints I'd ever hunt with my AR would be the two-legged variety,.."

So in essence what you are saying is that it's more important to you that you use it in it's press released FN dictated "designed intent" than it is to apply it to something it'd be good at simply because you don't shoot anything but two legged varmints. This is why I refer to this line of thinking as dogmatic. There's simply no good reason that what the manufacturers add says should trump a shooters idea especially when the tactical application depends entirely on special ammo that you can't get!

What pray tell does a "Ranch rifle" mean to you? According to 9 out of 10 gun mini-14 owners it means an inaccurate rifle left to rot in the cab of a rusted out truck. Why couldn't a "Ranch be defined as a large expanse of land (long shots) that requires shots at Coyotes (2MOA accuracy minimum at 200yds), deer/elk and potential bandits/rustlers? Well I'd wager that many will reply that Bill Ruger himself sat down and "designed" the mini 14 to be a crappy minime M1A that'd never get past it's bumpkin status.

Yet you occasionally read someone asking "why can't the Mini-14 shoot better?" before they are pummeled into submission by advertisement mongers.

MachIVshooter Thanks for the stunning attention to detail on my obviously sarcastic rant about AR's. I'm sorry that you can't see the irony that you think a small game gun can't cost a grand. Last I checked an english double shotgun eclipsed that price handily.

All in all I'm not surprised at the level of cremudgery applied to something as complicated as using a gun for an "off label" purpose. I guess cops with shotguns should reconsider given it's primary (or at least original) purpose as a gamegetting device. Maybe handguns should be reserved only for cavalry as they originally were. If someone hadn't figured out how to use a gun for a different application than the manufacturer dreamed up, the world of guns would be as dogmatic as, well, as most of the replies to my last post!

 

[Stiletto Null]

Nitpick: the F/FS2000 is not at all related to the P/PS90, except (sort of) in the shape of the main grip.

That particular gaffe drives me nuts.

 

[up_onus]

from my very limited reading....
seems that the gun is expensive -
fun to shoot -
designed for defense -
and armor peircing of soft body armor.

I wouldnt mind having one..... would be fun! but, for 1600, ill spend my money else where.

 

[Lobotomy Boy]

The ballistics of the round make it appealing. It could come in handy in certain circumstances, but I think those situations would be more conducive to a handgun than a carbine (even a short little carbine like the PS90).

Anyone see the latest James Bond film? It looked like the handgun used in many of the scenes was a Five-seveN. That would make sense.

 

[mordrid52]

Anyone see the latest James Bond film? It looked like the handgun used in many of the scenes was a Five-seveN. That would make sense.

The current official Bond gun is a Walther P99. It's possible a Five-seveN might have made an appearance somewhere, but that's not what he was carrying most of the time.

 

[Lobotomy Boy]

I think the FiveseveN is in the case in his Aston, along with the defibrilator. It only appears on screen for a brief moment.

 

[buzz_knox]

I think the FiveseveN is in the case in his Aston, along with the defibrilator. It only appears on screen for a brief moment.

The weapon in the Aston was his Walther. I don't recall a 5.7 at all.

 

[DoubleTapDrew]

I read somewhere that the Secret Service (protection detail I'd imagine) is using P90's now. Anyone else hear about this?
I still think it's a neat gun. I wouldn't grab one in a SHTF situation unless it was the only option, but they look fun to have.

 

[grimjaw]

I can't help thinking how much more useful it would be if it was chambered for 7.62x25 Tokarev . . .

jm

 

[Shipwreck]

Yes, I have seen several secret service new photos in the past year, and have seen the P90 pop up a few times. So, apparently, some of the agents are issued the P90.

 

[Bondo_Red]

If I was in a war,I can't think of a better subgun than the p90,and a better sidearm than the Five-Seven.The standard cartridge has efficient AP abilities and tumbles once it's hit,creating a very large wound.Both of their ranges are as far as you can get with a gun of their type.The fact of the matter is though,that submachine guns in semi auto only is kinda a waste.It's expensive,as well as it's ammo.For now it's better to just get an airsoft version to plink around with in the backyard.

 

[Shipwreck]

Well, come join this topic then

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=271453