Thousands of pistols seized in raids

[jdege]

It's called the "Iron Law of Prohibtion"

It's called the "Iron Law of Prohibtion" - when a class of products is illegal, anyway, you might as well sell the most lethal product possible.

Bootleggers didn't smuggle beer, they smuggled whiskey.

In the US, penguns, etc., are illegal or very tightly controlled. Ditto for submachineguns.

And there's no real market for them, because the penalties are severe, and much less expensive alternatives exist.

Make ordinary handguns illegal, so manufacture, sale, and possession are subject to the same penalties as penguns and SMGs, and what will happen? The criminals will still want guns. But the criminal suppliers will discover that they can get higher prices for penguns or SMGs, and since the penalty is the same...

Anyone but a liberal would be able to predict the result.

 

[bukijin]

My letter to the editor of the Sydney Morning Herald in response to this article. Have my doubts that it will be published, so if I post it here at least it will be on record somewhere !

Dear SMH,
I'd like to strongly object to the sentence
"The haul of key-ring-sized pistols yesterday indicated there had been a 'frightening development' in Sydney's gun culture"
contained in your article "Thousands of pistols seized in raids" of 16/11.

The actions of criminals are not indicative of Sydney's gun-culture - which is made up of thousands of law-abiding citizens who are responsible gun owners and users. To obtain a gun license, a citizen must have no criminal record making gun owners probably the most law-abiding group in society. We lawfully undertake our hobby despite extremely rigorous government control and certainly object to being included by association with criminals.

Criminals are not a part of the 'gun culture'. However, any criminal wants a gun so that they can enforce their will on unarmed members of the law-abiding public. By definition, criminals are people who don't obey the law. It is obvious that no amount of legislation or gun control is going to stop criminal ownership of firearms - in fact it just drives a blackmarket in firearms.

The real 'frightening development' is the illogical and ill-conceived confiscation of handguns due to the Firearms Amendment (Prohibited Pistols) Act 2003. Instead of being disparaged, members of the Sydney gun culture should be given credit for the responsible and mature way in which we are giving up our cherised possessions - it's not a law that we agree with, but it's a law that we obey.

Ironically, the key-ring guns that were seized are considered more of a toy or novelty item than a serious weapon. They are not powerful, have a very short range and are inaccurate. However, they do provide a significant threat to someone who is unarmed. The answer to this kind of threat is blindingly obvious - allow law-abiding citizens to own and carry firearms for self-defense - in the same way that police officers or security guards are permitted to. After all we out-number the criminals by at least 1000 to 1.

Sincerely..etc..


Australia's situation re gun laws is obviously very different from that of the USA since we don't have any support in our own constitution. It's easy to obey a law that you agree with - you only become 'law-abiding' when you obey the laws you don't agree with also So I have no sympathy for these gun smugglers and their criminal customers - they are the ones I want to be able to defend myself against !

 

[7.62FullMetalJacket]

Well done

 

[Oleg Volk]

The main sentiment towards our Australian members here is empathy! We hope that you either manage to boot the thugs running your country or get to move to America where your rights would be more respected.

 

[carpettbaggerr]

It's all well and good for you to lean back in your chairs smoking your big cigars and wearing your cowboy hats, whooping 'yeeah boy!' and laughing at our little 'gun-busts' while figuring out how many thousands of rounds you'd like to put through your M4 today, but keep in mind a lighter-gun with two little .32 calibre bullets in it has approximately two .32 calibre bullets more than I have access to if I get mugged by someone with one.

Why are you getting mad at us here in the States? It's your country and your government which is responsible for your plight. And we don't all wear cowboy hats here -- just the hicks in Texas.

 

[MaterDei]

G'Day all,

I don't even OWN a cowboy hat.

But I have been to Australia and I've even shot in Australia (the Steyr AUG, not my M-16). In 1997 I took part in a military training exersize called Operation Tandem Thrust (you can quit laughing now, I'm not the person who named it, OK). I earned my Aussy jump wings there with the 3 RAR.

In my 15 days spent with an Australian Brigade, I didn't hear a single complaint about your gun laws. Did all this happen post 1997?

I did, however, hear a lot of compaining about your income tax rate, 40+% if I recall, and a lot of discontent about the number of people, especially young able ones, 'on the dole'. Has this situation improved any?

Blue Skies,

MaterDei

 

[trooper]

In 1997 I took part in a military training exersize called Operation Tandem Thrust

I don't even wanna guess...

But seriously, Threeseven, I can relate to what you said. Over here it's almost as bad except that sports shooters and hunters have a bit more opportunities. However, virtually no CCW of any kind, and rather restrictive laws regarding storage, buy and sports disciplines ( no IDPA, no defenisve training).

I sincerely hope for the best for both of our countries but I'm not very optimistic about it. Waaaay too many whining, left-wing sheeple around...

Keep it up, introduce people to shooting and voice your opinion as often as possible.

And yes, I might emigrate to the US if I ever get the chance...



Regards,

Trooper

 

[threeseven]

MaterDei said:

In my 15 days spent with an Australian Brigade, I didn't hear a single complaint about your gun laws. Did all this happen post 1997? I did, however, hear a lot of compaining about your income tax rate, 40+% if I recall, and a lot of discontent about the number of people, especially young able ones, 'on the dole'. Has this situation improved any?

The new Weapons Category Regulations came into effect on the 17th of November, 1997 (if I recall correctly...). A black day, indeed. The footage of all those guns being mashed on TV - the Rifle Buy-Back - it was absolutely horrible. We just had another knee-jerk 'Handgun Steal-Back' as it's come to be known. There'll be nothing left soon

As for income tax, well, it hasn't improved any. I'm not sure when the GST - Goods and Services Tax - came into effect but we've got that now, too. Every good or service we purchase now has an additional 10% on top of it. We were told that the GST would reduce the income tax when we voted it in, but they still haven't reduced it.

These days, the dole is abused just as much as it ever was, if not more. I won't get started on the sort of people who are responsible for that, lest I get carried away with myself. Let's just say it's a bad situation.

carpettbaggerr said:

Why are you getting mad at us here in the States? It's your country and your government which is responsible for your plight. And we don't all wear cowboy hats here -- just the hicks in Texas.

I'm not really angry at anyone in particular, carpettbaggerr. Just some of the comments earlier in the thread irritated me somewhat. As far as my cowboy hat jab - I find it usuallys gets the conversation going if you stereotype and make gross generalizations about large groups of people. Hey, it's what I do Like I mentioned earlier, no offence intended.

 

[greyhound]

This forum has done a lot for my understanding of our Australian brothers. I used to think of the outback, brave pioneers and independent souls taming the wilderness. Here I read that though that may have once been true, Oz right now has one of the most urban nations anywhere, with a lot of immigration problems/policies brought on by years of guilt over excusionary practices. (kinda like our Immigration Act of 1965 was part of guilt over the civil rights movement).

If any of the above is wrong, please correct me. I truly feel sorry for fellow Anglo nations robbed of ANY form of self defense. Even in my VERY anti state I am permitted (grudgingly) to own a variety of firearms without nonsense like locking up the bolt/slide separately, etc.

As far as that lighter gun goes, it looks pretty unsafe to me. I's think twice before toting one of those around!

 

[greyhound]

Well, I just got back from walking the ole greyhound, and I just couldn't stop think about Australian gun laws.

If someone from there could enlighten us:

What do your leader says when asked "How are we supposed to defend ourselves?" I mean, Jeebus, y'all have crime, right? Or does no one really ask that question?

And does your government trust its citizens AT ALL? After passing that draconian series of procedures to buy a gun, they still make you lock up the parts so as to render it useless for self defense? What is the rationale here? Is the concept of defending one's self totally gone from the culture?

Please understand, I say this not as a gloater, but I am sincerely worried that we could be headed down the same road, and am just looking for some help from fellow Anglosphere folks....

 

[Weimadog]

Another eight bullets were found at Aidinidi's apartment in the Pallouriotissa area of the city.

Man, that is one dangerous person.

Weimadog

 

[7.62FullMetalJacket]

Eight bullets may qualify as a dual-purpose component of a WMD

 

[Don Galt]

ThreeSeven--- thanks for describing the US in about 10 years.

 

[Weimadog]

Quote Threeseven:

We're neutered by our government, we aren't spineless. I sit here and calmly read complaints about having to pay exhorbitant tax on a sawn-off shotgun or assault rifle - or for that matter, a machinegun or mortar. It's all well and good for you to lean back in your chairs smoking your big cigars and wearing your cowboy hats, whooping 'yeeah boy!' and laughing at our little 'gun-busts' while figuring out how many thousands of rounds you'd like to put through your M4 today, but keep in mind a lighter-gun with two little .32 calibre bullets in it has approximately two .32 calibre bullets more than I have access to if I get mugged by someone with one.

That is why this is a big deal. I'm finished my little rant. Hopefully I haven't offended anybody and hopefully I've taught you a little something about our great brown land.

Thanks for putting it so well.

We in the U.S. have to realize the situation you describe can happen here.

Weimadog

 

[jdege]

It's not that it can't happen here, but it's been happening here, and to keep it from getting worse is a constant struggle.

We usually think of European countries as being gun-rights hell-holes, but in many nations in Europe, a short-barrelled shotgun or a .60 caliber revolver is No Big Deal.