MT GUNNY
Member
http://www.jacksonholenews.com/article.php?art_id=4132
Yellowstone National Park officials say disentangling disparate concealed-weapons laws of three states has left unanswered questions about implementing a Bush administration rule that began allowing guns in the park last week.
The rule gives gun owners permission to carry concealed loaded weapons as long as their concealed-weapons permit is recognized by the state in which the park is located.
The problem is that Yellowstone stretches across three states – Wyoming, Montana and Idaho – and those states’ gun laws don’t jibe. For starters, the three states don’t recognize the same out-of-state permits.
Idaho has the least stringent reciprocity laws and recognizes permits from just about anywhere. Montana recognizes permits from 40 states, and Wyoming recognizes permits from only 23 states.
Theoretically, a person with a concealed-weapons permit from West Virginia could enter the park with a gun under his jacket on trails from the Bechler region in Idaho legally. But he would break the law once he stepped across the state line into Wyoming.
If he made it up just a few miles north of Mammoth, Montana state law would recognize his permit as valid, and the weapon would be legal again.
“Certainly, the bulk of Yellowstone is in Wyoming,” said Yellowstone spokesman Al Nash. But “we do have the Montana and Idaho issues we have to deal with.
“It’s a bit challenging, because we do have to look at how the laws in three states work for us. Our staff at the moment is looking to make sure that we understand what’s common in all of those and what is unique.”
Nash said each state also has other regulations that come into play. For instance, Wyoming state law says that firearms cannot be carried into a place where alcohol is served. In Montana, a person is not allowed to carry a concealed weapon if he or she is intoxicated.
Not only that, but the feds have their own rules and regulations. One prohibits guns in federal buildings or facilities, but just what constitutes a federal facility isn’t clear.
“A visitor center is an easy one,” Nash said. “Our administration building is another easy one. It’s not clear to us at this point ... [if] every structure would be classified as a federal facility even though we own it.”
The uncertainty extends to concessionaires too. Is a building still a federal facility if it is run by a private company?
Correspondence from regional National Park Service officials obtained by the Jackson Hole News&Guide indicates that the confusion goes all the way to Interior Department officials in Washington, D.C.
In a letter to Park Service employees, Intermountain Regional Office official Kathy Clark wrote that lawyers from both the Department of Justice and the Department of Interior are “continuing to consult on the definition for ‘federal facility,’” according to a Jan. 8 e-mail.
“There have been questions brought forward as to just how things like tour boats and amphitheaters fit into the equation.” the e-mail said. “DOI is still developing guidance on the firearms rule.”
The problem isn’t unique to Yellowstone. A number of parks straddle state lines, including Death Valley National Park (California and Nevada), Great Smoky Mountains National Park (Tennessee and North Carolina) and Lake Meade National Recreation Area (Nevada and Arizona).
Bush Administration officials touted the new gun rule as a way to make things simple and consistent for park employees and visitors, according to Bill Wade, chairman of the executive council of the Coalition of National Park Service Retirees. But so far, the rule has only resulted in chaos, he said.
“It’s now become very, very confusing for people who might be transporting firearms from one state to another,” he said. “And, if they have a legal permit from one state, they’re going to have to do a lot of research,” to find out if that permit is valid in the park they are visiting.
Wade said the prohibition against guns in federal buildings will be particularly hard to enforce.
“Is the Park Service going to have to place metal detectors at the entrances of buildings?” he asked. “Is that really the kind of thing that public wants to face in national parks?”
Wade said park law enforcement officers now will likely use extra caution when approaching park visitors.
“Law enforcement rangers are going to have to be much more careful and much more suspicious,” Wade said. “It just takes away a little bit from that specialness that national parks have been accorded for years and years and years.”
George Durkee, vice president of the Fraternal Order of Police’s Ranger Lodge, called the new gun rule “pretty close to a nightmare.”
“At the moment it is a confusing mess, and I don’t think that is going to change,” he said, explaining that rangers in Yellowstone will have to sort through too much information to determine whether a park visitor is carrying his or her concealed weapon legally. “There’s just no way, you just can’t remember that stuff.”
Nash said the primary concern for Yellowstone’s law enforcement officers is communicating with visitors about the new rule.
“We don’t want visitors to be under the impression that there is now hunting in the park or that they can carry a loaded rifle with them,” he said.
“It’s not that we’re going to be dealing with issues that local and county law enforcement agencies haven’t dealt with,” Nash continued. “But it is something that we haven’t dealt with in the past. It’s likely to take a little time for us to ensure that we’re clear on this.”
Grand Teton spokeswoman Jackie Skaggs said her park doesn’t have to deal with the same three-state questions as Yellowstone, but the law still presents some new challenges.
“There’s a little bit of finesse,” she said. “Anyone who is exercising their right absolutely needs to know the rules and regulations of the state they are in. We honestly don’t know how this will affect the daily law enforcement operations at this point.”
“The previous rule worked fine,” Skaggs continued. “It seemed to be a practical approach and a very workable rule that was in effect until now. We didn’t have a lot of visitors who felt like they were being unduly put upon by the rule.”
Rachel Parsons, spokeswoman for the National Rifle Association, said gun owners are aware of the differences in laws among states.
“Currently, gun owners are responsible for researching the gun laws within the states they are traveling, and that would be no different under this rule,” she said. “We’re talking about law-abiding folks. They’re very aware of the differing state laws.”
The National Parks Conservation Association and the Coalition of National Park Service Retirees filed a lawsuit against the measure in Washington, D.C. District Court last week.
The Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence filed a similar lawsuit Dec. 30.
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I find the Answer Simple! Every one who Carries Knows the the Laws of the state they plan on Being in. This is no different than Traveling Now, But the confusion does give Ammo for the Brady Camp among others. There case should be Easily Defeated in Supreme Court.
One thing I am still not shure of, not have seen the Final Rule in print from the DOI is, If it states that state laws apply in Parks then OC would be Legal in all three States. From what Ive Read of the wording of the rule change the words around "Concealed Carrying" are Examples of the new rules.
IF I am Correct in my assumption that all state Laws will Prevail in National Parks. Then a Person From West Virginia as stated in Article Could Simply Uncover his Firearm (OC) Legally in all three states.
Yellowstone National Park officials say disentangling disparate concealed-weapons laws of three states has left unanswered questions about implementing a Bush administration rule that began allowing guns in the park last week.
The rule gives gun owners permission to carry concealed loaded weapons as long as their concealed-weapons permit is recognized by the state in which the park is located.
The problem is that Yellowstone stretches across three states – Wyoming, Montana and Idaho – and those states’ gun laws don’t jibe. For starters, the three states don’t recognize the same out-of-state permits.
Idaho has the least stringent reciprocity laws and recognizes permits from just about anywhere. Montana recognizes permits from 40 states, and Wyoming recognizes permits from only 23 states.
Theoretically, a person with a concealed-weapons permit from West Virginia could enter the park with a gun under his jacket on trails from the Bechler region in Idaho legally. But he would break the law once he stepped across the state line into Wyoming.
If he made it up just a few miles north of Mammoth, Montana state law would recognize his permit as valid, and the weapon would be legal again.
“Certainly, the bulk of Yellowstone is in Wyoming,” said Yellowstone spokesman Al Nash. But “we do have the Montana and Idaho issues we have to deal with.
“It’s a bit challenging, because we do have to look at how the laws in three states work for us. Our staff at the moment is looking to make sure that we understand what’s common in all of those and what is unique.”
Nash said each state also has other regulations that come into play. For instance, Wyoming state law says that firearms cannot be carried into a place where alcohol is served. In Montana, a person is not allowed to carry a concealed weapon if he or she is intoxicated.
Not only that, but the feds have their own rules and regulations. One prohibits guns in federal buildings or facilities, but just what constitutes a federal facility isn’t clear.
“A visitor center is an easy one,” Nash said. “Our administration building is another easy one. It’s not clear to us at this point ... [if] every structure would be classified as a federal facility even though we own it.”
The uncertainty extends to concessionaires too. Is a building still a federal facility if it is run by a private company?
Correspondence from regional National Park Service officials obtained by the Jackson Hole News&Guide indicates that the confusion goes all the way to Interior Department officials in Washington, D.C.
In a letter to Park Service employees, Intermountain Regional Office official Kathy Clark wrote that lawyers from both the Department of Justice and the Department of Interior are “continuing to consult on the definition for ‘federal facility,’” according to a Jan. 8 e-mail.
“There have been questions brought forward as to just how things like tour boats and amphitheaters fit into the equation.” the e-mail said. “DOI is still developing guidance on the firearms rule.”
The problem isn’t unique to Yellowstone. A number of parks straddle state lines, including Death Valley National Park (California and Nevada), Great Smoky Mountains National Park (Tennessee and North Carolina) and Lake Meade National Recreation Area (Nevada and Arizona).
Bush Administration officials touted the new gun rule as a way to make things simple and consistent for park employees and visitors, according to Bill Wade, chairman of the executive council of the Coalition of National Park Service Retirees. But so far, the rule has only resulted in chaos, he said.
“It’s now become very, very confusing for people who might be transporting firearms from one state to another,” he said. “And, if they have a legal permit from one state, they’re going to have to do a lot of research,” to find out if that permit is valid in the park they are visiting.
Wade said the prohibition against guns in federal buildings will be particularly hard to enforce.
“Is the Park Service going to have to place metal detectors at the entrances of buildings?” he asked. “Is that really the kind of thing that public wants to face in national parks?”
Wade said park law enforcement officers now will likely use extra caution when approaching park visitors.
“Law enforcement rangers are going to have to be much more careful and much more suspicious,” Wade said. “It just takes away a little bit from that specialness that national parks have been accorded for years and years and years.”
George Durkee, vice president of the Fraternal Order of Police’s Ranger Lodge, called the new gun rule “pretty close to a nightmare.”
“At the moment it is a confusing mess, and I don’t think that is going to change,” he said, explaining that rangers in Yellowstone will have to sort through too much information to determine whether a park visitor is carrying his or her concealed weapon legally. “There’s just no way, you just can’t remember that stuff.”
Nash said the primary concern for Yellowstone’s law enforcement officers is communicating with visitors about the new rule.
“We don’t want visitors to be under the impression that there is now hunting in the park or that they can carry a loaded rifle with them,” he said.
“It’s not that we’re going to be dealing with issues that local and county law enforcement agencies haven’t dealt with,” Nash continued. “But it is something that we haven’t dealt with in the past. It’s likely to take a little time for us to ensure that we’re clear on this.”
Grand Teton spokeswoman Jackie Skaggs said her park doesn’t have to deal with the same three-state questions as Yellowstone, but the law still presents some new challenges.
“There’s a little bit of finesse,” she said. “Anyone who is exercising their right absolutely needs to know the rules and regulations of the state they are in. We honestly don’t know how this will affect the daily law enforcement operations at this point.”
“The previous rule worked fine,” Skaggs continued. “It seemed to be a practical approach and a very workable rule that was in effect until now. We didn’t have a lot of visitors who felt like they were being unduly put upon by the rule.”
Rachel Parsons, spokeswoman for the National Rifle Association, said gun owners are aware of the differences in laws among states.
“Currently, gun owners are responsible for researching the gun laws within the states they are traveling, and that would be no different under this rule,” she said. “We’re talking about law-abiding folks. They’re very aware of the differing state laws.”
The National Parks Conservation Association and the Coalition of National Park Service Retirees filed a lawsuit against the measure in Washington, D.C. District Court last week.
The Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence filed a similar lawsuit Dec. 30.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
I find the Answer Simple! Every one who Carries Knows the the Laws of the state they plan on Being in. This is no different than Traveling Now, But the confusion does give Ammo for the Brady Camp among others. There case should be Easily Defeated in Supreme Court.
One thing I am still not shure of, not have seen the Final Rule in print from the DOI is, If it states that state laws apply in Parks then OC would be Legal in all three States. From what Ive Read of the wording of the rule change the words around "Concealed Carrying" are Examples of the new rules.
IF I am Correct in my assumption that all state Laws will Prevail in National Parks. Then a Person From West Virginia as stated in Article Could Simply Uncover his Firearm (OC) Legally in all three states.