GRIZZLY attack in National Park gun free utopia

[KHAN]

 

[Joe Demko]

What do coyotes and grizzly bears have to do with the people and their rights? If you think you are going to change one single vote in Washington by re-posting a story about a kid getting bitten by (maybe) a coyote in NJ or some clod provoking a grizzly, then I believe you need to rethink your strategy. Heck, I'm actually on your side WRT to the people's right to bear arms and yet all I get from your posts is a phobia of wild animals.

 

[gunsmith]

um...Joe?....so what?

Consider the following data:
1. In the years since 2000, there have been less than 20 fatal bear attacks by bears of any species.
2. Verified coyote attacks on humans are rare with only a single known fatality.
3. In the US and Canada together, there is an average of about 4 mountain lion attacks per year.
4. 25 people were killed by domestic dogs in the US in 2006 and nearly 5 million were bitten.
5. In 2005, the most recent available data, nearly 17,000 people were murdered by other people.

Whats your point?

 

[gunsmith]

you are only getting what you want to get

yet all I get from your posts is a phobia of wild animals.

I don't see how you come to that conclusion, oh great white hunter, does this mean you have a phobia about people?

Consider the following data:
1. In the years since 2000, there have been less than 20 fatal bear attacks by bears of any species.
2. Verified coyote attacks on humans are rare with only a single known fatality.
3. In the US and Canada together, there is an average of about 4 mountain lion attacks per year.
4. 25 people were killed by domestic dogs in the US in 2006 and nearly 5 million were bitten.
5. In 2005, the most recent available data, nearly 17,000 people were murdered by other people.

I guess using great white hunter logic that you are deathly afraid of people

 

[gunsmith]

Joe, you were obviously bitten by DNS, my other cyberstalker.
I think the real problem here is my threads are just more popular then yours and I have more post listed then you even though you joined earlier then I did.
I promise to try and not start so many popular threads....ok?

 

[Joe Demko]

I play the numbers gunsmith. It's more likely I'll be attacked by a human or a domestic dog than I will a coyote or a grizzly bear...especially when there aren't any grizzly bears here. If I was trying to persuade someone to our side of the 2A argument, I think I might go with a story about an old lady getting beat down by a crackhead over a story about an incautious photographer getting swatted across the face by a grizzly. See, most people have more crackheads to worry about than they do grizzlies, it's that numbers thing again.

 

[gunsmith]

Joe, you were obviously bitten by DNS, my other cyberstalker.
I think the real problem here is my threads are just more popular then yours and I have more post listed then you even though you joined earlier then I did.
I promise to try and not start so many popular threads....ok?

 

[gunsmith]

Quote:
Consider the following data:
1. In the years since 2000, there have been less than 20 fatal bear attacks by bears of any species.
2. Verified coyote attacks on humans are rare with only a single known fatality.
3. In the US and Canada together, there is an average of about 4 mountain lion attacks per year.
4. 25 people were killed by domestic dogs in the US in 2006 and nearly 5 million were bitten.
5. In 2005, the most recent available data, nearly 17,000 people were murdered by other people.
I guess using great white hunter logic that you are deathly afraid of people

 

[gunsmith]

See, most people have more crackheads to worry about than they do grizzlies, it's that numbers thing again.

Oh don't worry Joe, (you are worrying Joe) crack heads are not that scary, maybe you can get help for your phobia.

Don't be so frightened of city people, you only become one if they bite you.

 

[Joe Demko]

I think the real problem here is my threads are just more popular then yours and I have more post listed then you even though you joined earlier then I did.
I promise to try and not start so many popular threads....ok?

I hope that was an attempt at humor; but I don't think it was. I don't think I want to go any further with this thread because you're investing more self-image in it than I am. Good day.

 

[AntiqueCollector]

Joe, perhaps on a whole a person in the U.S. is not likely to be eaten by a bear or such, but people in specific locations (certain national parks, the Alaskan bush...) are more in danger than others. The statistics can be misleading.

 

[learningman]

Can someone tell me when the Joe and Gunsmith show will be over. I don't care where you live there is always some risk when we venture into the wild. Thats the chance you take. Common sense is your best weapon. Grizzley's can kill, mountain lions can kill, those facts are well established. The photographer got to close and he paid the price for the perfect picture. I don't think some of you realize how fast a Grizz can move. A lunge could have come from thiry yards away or more and you would not have the time to react to it. It sounds hard to believe but true. A Grizz can obtain a speed of over 30 mph in a short sprint. I'm not sure of the math but 30 mph in 30 to 40 yards isn't much time to react. You wouldn't even get a shot off in that time. Your gun will be nothing more than a decoration on your hip.

 

[carpenter]

A preacher was walking through the woods and heard a noise. He looked around and saw a bear. He prayed, “Lord, please let this be a Christian bear.” He turned around again and saw the bear praying, “Father, for this food we’re about to receive, we’re grateful.”

Can someone tell me when the Joe and Gunsmith show will be over.

LOL!

Granted. We should be allowed to carry anywhere. Even/especially in national forests. But such a liberty might embolden many (on this forum?) to take reckless chances re dangerous game. Where to draw the line?

On the one hand, we have a right to protect ourselves from surprise attack from any creature. On the other hand, wild animals are fiercely territorial. So prudence dictates we exercise common sense when in the wild.

If a human deliberately seeks out such dangerous game, and in the original article, for the sake of financial profit, can we be alarmed that he was attacked?

 

[marie]

I am outraged that places in Montana I romped in as a child are now too dangerous for me to risk. The footpaths just 100-200 yards from McDonald Lodge (Glacier Natl Park) are now marked: "Danger, grizzlies hereabout. Yell and beat drums!" Give me a break. The fantastically beautiful fishing country up behind Hungry Horse Dam is now "grizzly country." I won't risk that. The 80-acre farm I grew up on is now frequented by cougars. I say we send the bears, cougars and wolves to Connecticut !!

 

[GoRon]

Time to open up limited hunting seasons and start "managing" their numbers.

They need to fear being in proximity to man, hunting them instills that fear.

(I'm making an assumption that they aren't hunted)

 

[learningman]

I say we keep the bears, mountain lions, and wolves and start hunting them ourselves. The lions can be hunted now w/or w/out dogs. The bears and the wolves should be hunted as well. If the numbers have grown to the point where the abundance brings them that close to civilization on a regular basis then its maybe time to weed a few out. I used to go up to Hungry Horse and the Flathead country as a kid for huckleberry and cherry picking and we never had much concern for bears. You knew they in the country but not as bad as what it is now. My first Mountain Lion incounter was near Thompson Falls on a hunting trip. The year before they had taken a 185lb cat that was eight feet from tip to tale. Big cat! Enter at your own risk.

 

[george29]

Posted these in a different section, makes me want an RPG when I walk in the woods

Bear Spray? Watch these and pretend all you have is bear spray


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZnsL...elated&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzdKfjkcxuU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdTdp...elated&search=

 

[Chui]

I'm not sure that wolves pose a human threat despite their size and strength. Perhaps if they were extremely hungry - tough winter - and your paths happened to cross (and you were injured) perhaps so. But under the majority of the time I'm not concerned about them so long as I'm armed. Springfield Bush or SOCOM-16 with 180 grain HydraShoks would do fine, but I highly doubt that they'd bother you. Bears are a different proposition as they've been known to charge and chew on humans.

 

[Caimlas]

Park visitors are encouraged to travel in groups and make noise so the bears can hear them coming and are not surprised.

Yeaaahhh. That's exactly what I want to do when I'm visiting a wilderness preserve in an attempt to get a look at animals in the wild: travel in a large, noisy group. If I want to travel amidst a group through some trees, I can do that at NY Central Park. Heck, I'd probably have a better likelihood of seeing wild animals in Central Park while doing that than I would at a wilderness reserve.

Not to sound like a cold, heartless bastard, but: it'd have been better if he'd died and his body not found. The world would be less one idiot, and the bear would not have to be hunted down and killed. No, I'm not one of those "animals are people too!" nuts; I just prefer animals to idiots.

 

[Caimlas]

I say we keep the bears, mountain lions, and wolves and start hunting them ourselves. The lions can be hunted now w/or w/out dogs. The bears and the wolves should be hunted as well. If the numbers have grown to the point where the abundance brings them that close to civilization on a regular basis then its maybe time to weed a few out.

That's possible, but on a national level I wholeheartedly disagree. There are certain parts of the country where the predator/prey relationship is drastically out of balance when man's presence is taken out of the equation - namely, the northeastern part of the country. Ideally, we need a predator/prey relationship closer to 1:1; though obviously, with the presence of man and a lack of demand for the product of predators, we would compensate for it with less predators, obviously.

But, in much of the country, there aren't enough natural predators to speak of, and it's ecologically unsound, even with man's presence taken into consideration. (And then, in other places, there are simply too many people, but that's a story for another day.)

The 80-acre farm I grew up on is now frequented by cougars. I say we send the bears, cougars and wolves to Connecticut !!

Sounds good to me; they certainly need more of 'em! Keep in mind that there's a natural balance to things, or at least should be, ideally. I'd say, just because there are cougars, bears, and wolves about doesn't mean that they're omnipresent and ever-dangerous. Yes, if they're encroaching, cull 'em. But don't go on a rampage or anything...

 

[Double Naught Spy]

again, how do you know he was not stalked by the bear?
He could have been taking pics of a bear a mile away and this one came up from behind him.

Okay, fine, then give the guy low marks again for such poor situational awareness. He was attacked while photographing, so maybe he had stereotypical target fixation and didn't pay attention to his surroundings as people should do when out and about in bear country.

However, it isn't very likely that he was stalked by a female and cub, briefly attacked, and allowed to escape. Stalking is more commonly done with hunting and brief attacks like this are usually defensive. He got too close and the mother bear simply let him know it. Had he been stalked as food, she would not have let him get away. People are slow game compared to bears and easy prey.

 

[marie]

learningman: a few years ago in Columbia Falls they had a grizzly show up at the Dairy Queen for lunch. And if you remember Columbia Falls, it's civilization (!), NOT up in the mountains.

 

[Tomcat47]

Advice..
When filming bears USE A TELEPHOTO LENS!!!!!!
This goes right along with people that put there feet under a mower or pour Hot coffee in their lap, and blame the mower company and the resturaunt.

When hiking ...stay on trails, follow good outdoorsman policies, and dont feed the bears. especially yourself. Be sure to carry the pepper spray and may I suggest at least a 44 magnum.

In case of bear attack.....shoot the bear....spray him with the pepper spray and stick a stick in the hole it will look like an accident!

The real issue here is the 2nd Ammendment and we should have the right to carry!!!!!!!

And for myself I will not vote McCain or Guliani, But Romney is a hopeful for this Nation in my opinion.......I still would try CPR on Reagan!
God we need him!

 

[Tomcat47]

One more thing......

Whether your path brings in contact with a criminal or a Grizzly.....
Remember
When the time for action has come...
The Time for preperation has passed...
Abraham Lincoln

When in the forrest be prepared !
When on the streets be prepared !

The criminal wants what you have even if he has to harm you to get it....To the Grizzly Bear you are a criminal in his house and he will do what he has to do....

Preperation has many forms....not just the defensive one!

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

He had been photographing wild bears in the park when a female with a cub lunged at him.

Hopefully the next time he does this it will be with a telephoto lens with as much magnification as possible.