I want a leather OWB holster with belt snaps for my H&K P2000 in 40. but my decision is coming down to thumbbreak or to not have a thumbbreak and would like some input on how the gun feels and stays secure without having a thumbbreak on a leather holster....Thanks for any information....drf
Thumbbreak leather holster -vs- no thumbbreak leather holster!
- Thread starter drf
- Start date
- Status
Vern Humphrey
Member
I carry concealed without a thumbreak. The decision depends on three things -- your occupation or activity, your gun, and your holster.
Police officers, security guards, and similar professions need retention, and often choose thumbreaks. Similarly, when riding horseback with a gun, I usually have a thumbreak or strap securing the gun.
Some holsters are less secure than others -- I carry my Kimber Custom Classic in an Inside-the-Waistband holster, where pressure from the belt and body holds the gun very securely. Some OWB holsters are much less secure.
Finally the gun itself is an important part of the equation -- some holsters and guns don't go together well. A good example is the Galco Fletch and the M1911. The thumbreak can dislodge the safety lever, leaving you with a cocked and unlocked gun in your holster.
Police officers, security guards, and similar professions need retention, and often choose thumbreaks. Similarly, when riding horseback with a gun, I usually have a thumbreak or strap securing the gun.
Some holsters are less secure than others -- I carry my Kimber Custom Classic in an Inside-the-Waistband holster, where pressure from the belt and body holds the gun very securely. Some OWB holsters are much less secure.
Finally the gun itself is an important part of the equation -- some holsters and guns don't go together well. A good example is the Galco Fletch and the M1911. The thumbreak can dislodge the safety lever, leaving you with a cocked and unlocked gun in your holster.
I've heard it said that form fitted leather holsters have three "phases" of life. Too tight, just right, and too loose. Only the second phase is a usefull period.
Might want to think about what that means if your laying out big bucks for one without a strap
Might want to think about what that means if your laying out big bucks for one without a strap
1911 guy
Member
No Strap For Me
I carry a 1911 in a Galco holster without a thumb break when concealed. My job isn't very physicaly demanding (machinist) so I don't worry about "fallout". I've got a couple other holsters I use when camping, hiking, etc. that do have the break. Your call for your activity level/mental comfort.
I carry a 1911 in a Galco holster without a thumb break when concealed. My job isn't very physicaly demanding (machinist) so I don't worry about "fallout". I've got a couple other holsters I use when camping, hiking, etc. that do have the break. Your call for your activity level/mental comfort.
PCRCCW
Member
As a holster maker I can say 99% of those who carry a CCW really dont need a thumb break. People say they like the added assurance of one, but IMO its like those who are scared of carrying Cond 1....until you do it for a long time and you prove to yourself its not a valid concern then you can relax.
Some people literally need thumbbreaks, the Secret Service requires one for on and off duty, some agencies do the same thing for off duty carry. Ill tell you from experience of my own and my customers they really arent necessary for MOST people.
All of the top makers who I know or have seen their products use the best leather known to man, literally. When its molded properly it becomes hard and when boned or molded to the guns shape it creates retention. The leather wont soften for YEARS to the point it looses that retention. Even with everyday carry.
You need to look at it from a couple of different points of view. IWB holsters are made with less retention in the holster itself as 50% of the retention is in the holster and 50% comes from the belt/pant pressure from being worn IWB.
So these are made with less retention........OWB holsters are made to retain the gun without the aid of Belt/pant pressure.
Most thumbbreaks are found on OWB holsters and if molded properly from the right leather, really dont need them for proper retention.
Alot of people think if they have a thumbbreak it gives them added assurance that a bad guy wont be able to get at their gun....thus Cops have to have 2 and 3 levels of retention, in case of a scuffle with a BG and hes trying to get their gun. What you need to consider in this case is if your gun is truely concealed like it should be, no BG is gonna know you are armed until your gun is pointing at them. Thus its a moot point........
The level of activity has been brought up.....Ive ref'd a soccer game...ALONE! and ran for over an hour with no problems regarding retention. Ive done a 2 hour Karate class that my son, who so nicely volunteered me for as an opponent for the instructor to beat up on and again had no problems with retention.......both times I wasnt made in the process. All in the name of R&D
I guess you could say.
My vote is for no TBs........I dont find them necessary for CCW.
Shoot well................Eric
Some people literally need thumbbreaks, the Secret Service requires one for on and off duty, some agencies do the same thing for off duty carry. Ill tell you from experience of my own and my customers they really arent necessary for MOST people.
All of the top makers who I know or have seen their products use the best leather known to man, literally. When its molded properly it becomes hard and when boned or molded to the guns shape it creates retention. The leather wont soften for YEARS to the point it looses that retention. Even with everyday carry.
You need to look at it from a couple of different points of view. IWB holsters are made with less retention in the holster itself as 50% of the retention is in the holster and 50% comes from the belt/pant pressure from being worn IWB.
So these are made with less retention........OWB holsters are made to retain the gun without the aid of Belt/pant pressure.
Most thumbbreaks are found on OWB holsters and if molded properly from the right leather, really dont need them for proper retention.
Alot of people think if they have a thumbbreak it gives them added assurance that a bad guy wont be able to get at their gun....thus Cops have to have 2 and 3 levels of retention, in case of a scuffle with a BG and hes trying to get their gun. What you need to consider in this case is if your gun is truely concealed like it should be, no BG is gonna know you are armed until your gun is pointing at them. Thus its a moot point........
The level of activity has been brought up.....Ive ref'd a soccer game...ALONE! and ran for over an hour with no problems regarding retention. Ive done a 2 hour Karate class that my son, who so nicely volunteered me for as an opponent for the instructor to beat up on and again had no problems with retention.......both times I wasnt made in the process. All in the name of R&D
I guess you could say.
My vote is for no TBs........I dont find them necessary for CCW.
Shoot well................Eric
nemesis
Member
Gravity.
KONY
Member
Unlatching a thumb-break ... just one more variable to impede a successful gun draw. If you are drawing from concealment, you already have enough things that could go wrong, IMO.
I wear a thumb break IWB because I ride a motorcycle often with a officer sized 1911. However once off the bike, if I am in a code orange situation, I unsnap the break in advance. I have established the habit of always thumbing the snap anyway. With short pistols its much easier for the weapon to work its way out if you should need to run, take a spill, need to defend yourself non-lethal Kung Fu Crazy style etc. The key is practice what you use.
BluesBear
member
All of my working holsters either have a flap or a thumb-break*.
I have been carrying thrumb break holsters for over 30 years.
I am faster with a leather thumb break holster than I am with a friction fit Kydex holster.
Unless you're playing one of those games where a millionth of a second on a timer makes a difference, If a thumb break slows down your draw you ain't practiced enough.
I insist that my pistol has a safety. So why shouldn't my holster?
I have been carrying thrumb break holsters for over 30 years.
I am faster with a leather thumb break holster than I am with a friction fit Kydex holster.
Unless you're playing one of those games where a millionth of a second on a timer makes a difference, If a thumb break slows down your draw you ain't practiced enough.
I insist that my pistol has a safety. So why shouldn't my holster?
Last edited:
KONY
Member
I understand your reasoning but if you are carrying concealed with a properly fitted holster, isn't the thumb-break overkill?
Sean Smith
Member
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2002
- Messages
- 4,925
A proper holster without a thumb-break should still retain your gun even if you jump up and down or roll around. If it doesn't, it is a problem with the manufacture of the holster, not the fact that it doesn't have a thumb-break.
CAS700850
Member
I think you need to make the decision based upon your own skills and needs. Do you normally use a thumb-break? THen get one. Usually carry open-top? Then go that way. If you normally go open topped, and want the thumb-break, Do yourself the favor of practicing. A lot. And then some more.
SLCDave
Member
I don't like thumb breaks, for many of the reasons already listed.
SAWBONES
Member
Thumbbreaks are evil.
KONY
Member
I think with the OWB super retention holsters from outfits like Safariland, traditional thumb-breaks might become obsolete. Of course, lots of semi-auto folks probably said that about the revolver!
BluesBear
member
In my world, when it comes to safety and weapon retention there is no such thing as overkill.
As I said I have practiced using a thumb break for over 30 years. It is second nature for me. I have tried open top models as well. They offer no advantage for ME.
It wasn't all that long ago that holsters with thumb breaks and even regular straps were the norm and open tops were the novelty.
All types of holsters have their place. Use what works best for you. But don't forget that there is no universal best. And please don't dismiss something just because it's not best for you.
However you may rest assured that, if the balloon goes up, my N-frame S&W will clear it's thumb break holster in plenty of time to cover your six.
Practice Safe.
Practice Hard.
Practice Often!
BluesBear
member
Z_Infidel,
For belt carry I have been using a Galco Silhouette since both of my 20 year old (and still going strong) Roy Baker Pancakes were stolen a few years ago.
I tried a friend's Bianchi #7 Shadow(?) but the thumb snap on his particular one didn't jibe with my .500 Target hammers. (And I didn't want to stretch it out too much for his) But I was pleased with the ride.
If I ever dig myself out of this hole I'll either try a new Bianchi or plead with Eric to recreate a few Baker's for me.
For belt carry I have been using a Galco Silhouette since both of my 20 year old (and still going strong) Roy Baker Pancakes were stolen a few years ago.
I tried a friend's Bianchi #7 Shadow(?) but the thumb snap on his particular one didn't jibe with my .500 Target hammers. (And I didn't want to stretch it out too much for his) But I was pleased with the ride.
If I ever dig myself out of this hole I'll either try a new Bianchi or plead with Eric to recreate a few Baker's for me.
Blues Bear, All of the custom (and expensive unfortunately) manufacturers will put a thumb break on holsters at your request. It usually is around $20 extra. Check out Kramer, Wild Bill's, etc.
Thumb breaks aren't for retention from riding motorcycles or doing hand stands. It is for you retaining your pistol in a fight. The weapon can not be snatched off your hip without some extra effort. Unfortunately, there are plenty of good folks currently pushing up daisies that were killed with their own gun that they brought to the fight. I see a lot of the open top designs and think that people are wasting their money. You might as well go holster-less and jam the pistol in your waist band. Plenty of folks carry CCW because they think that the fight is a possiblity and are preparing for it. Nobody knows when, where or how that fight is coming so prepare for it.
Thumb breaks aren't for retention from riding motorcycles or doing hand stands. It is for you retaining your pistol in a fight. The weapon can not be snatched off your hip without some extra effort. Unfortunately, there are plenty of good folks currently pushing up daisies that were killed with their own gun that they brought to the fight. I see a lot of the open top designs and think that people are wasting their money. You might as well go holster-less and jam the pistol in your waist band. Plenty of folks carry CCW because they think that the fight is a possiblity and are preparing for it. Nobody knows when, where or how that fight is coming so prepare for it.
BluesBear
member
Medmo, I agree 100%!
And keeping control and possession of that handgun is extremely important.
In fact it very well could become a matter of life or death.
Clint Smith said:
And keeping control and possession of that handgun is extremely important.
In fact it very well could become a matter of life or death.
I beg to differ on this one. The thumb break is the evolution of the hammer strap from the days of the single action revolvers. Not all holsters are form fitted and therefore may not provide a lot of retention without an added feature (thumb break, strap, flap).
Yes it will provide retention in a fight, but that is just one of many activities you could be involved in where handgun retention is required. Remember that the holster's job is to also protect the handgun. It cannot provide this protection if it allows the handgun to slip out of the holster during activities.
BluesBear
member
Also very true.
I just personally prefer the way my handguns easily glide out of my holsters after I release the thumb break as opposed to having to yank them out of Kydex or tightly fitted leather. Reholstering is also much easier for me.
I don't have to worry if the tension screw is too loose or too tight.
I don't have to worry about my holster being so tight it wears the finish.
I don't have to wonder if my handgun has started to come loose.
That simple thumb break insures that my gun is where it's supposed to be at all times. If I need reasurance all I have to do it look or discretely feel. If it's snapped it's secure.
But let me say one more time. What works best for me may not be what works best for you. Thankfully we have the option of so many styles of holsters from so many high quality makers. When it cones to carrying a handgun you truely can "Have It Your Own Way".
Practice Safe,
Practice Hard,
Practice Often.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked