Thumbing hammer back?

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chris in va

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I was over at a friend's house and we were comparing my Sig 220 to his Colt 1991. And of course I got to thinking.:eek:

None of my carry/HD firearms have safeties. I fully understand the consistency of "first shot SA" pull of the 1911 platform though. I just don't think I would be able to master all those safeties. But I still like the harder DA pull to help prevent ND's.

So as people draw their SA guns, the safety comes off usually. So why not do the same with my Sig, thumbing the hammer back with my left hand? His Colt actually had a lighter SA pull than mine, stock from the factory.

Thoughts?
 
I just don't think I would be able to master all those safeties
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You don't have to consciously think about putting your finger in the trigger well do you? If you can naturally do that, then you can automatically swipe the thumb safety when you draw the pistol on a M1911.

I think that if you try and develop a manual of arms needing both hands to arm the pistol, you are putting yourself at a disadvantage. What if you don't have 2 hands available?
 
Yeah I started with Glocks, then I went to 1911's, now anytime I draw a glock my thumb sweeps down even though there isn't a manual safety.

I'll admit hand me a weapon that the safety sweeps up. I'll shoot it, but I won't carry it. the downward sweep is ingrained, I'm not going to try to unlearn it, or fumble around with sweep up, or sweep down?
 
I used to do that with my USP at matches. The rules said a DA pistol had to start in the holster, hammer down so I practiced untill I could thumb it on the draw stroke. Really helped my first shot accuraccy. I also do that on my M9. The double action pull sucks, and I hate the sweep up safety so I carry chambered, hammer down, safety off. Thumb the hammer on draw. It's against SOP, but it's what works best for me. I did train myself to use the firing hand thumb though. Just in case the other hand is busy.
 
I've carried a pistol with a thumb safety, and trained myself to sweep down on the draw. It was a DA only pistol, but I still carried chambered and safed. Now I carry a Sig and carry chambered and hammer down. I always decock at the range for the first shot, so I've trained with the heavy DA trigger. I find that for some unknown reason, I'm actually more accurate DA than SA.
 
If you practice with a 1911 long enough you will not even think about thumbing the safety off.

I have to slow down when i want to unholster to unload to NOT thumb off the safety.
 
I think the hesitation regarding thumbing teh hammer back goes to the filler material folks put in for books regarding defense: If you pull back the hammer on a double action revolver (or any gun) it can be construed as meditation of murder. Dont listen to any of it. You shoot a guy/gal in your home, shoot to win and let your lawyer worry about it. I shot a guy should be your story, not I pulled back the hammer to make the trigger pull lighter to I would be more accurate.

Sigs have that nasty double action (at least to me :) ). Either way, the round is going out the barrel.
 
Let's see here, thumb the hammer back manually on
A) Double Action/Single Action pistol where the design
offers mechanical operation to accomplish saem.
-OR-
B) Carry a 1911 in Hammer down Condition 2

so, you want to clearly go away from the recommended
manual of arms in either case

*** makes you think you know more than the designers
and handgun experts ?

R-
 
BruceRDucer said:
I’m having trouble finding the safety on the revolver.
Click to expand...

And apparently you’re having trouble finding the revolver forum. :neener:

I always figured that I would thumb the hammer on a double-action SIG-Sauer pistol if I had the time, but I haven’t trained myself to do it on the draw.

~G. Fink
 
I remember one of the early editions of American Handgunners, back mid to late 70s , contained an article by Mas Ayoob on the S&W 39/59s. (Come to think of it,that may have been the first article I'd ever noticed written by him, very cogent and clearly written.) He talked about his mode of carry on the Model 39: safety off, hammer down. On the draw, he would bring up the pistol in his right hand, position his left as the gun is coming up, swipe his left thumb over the hammer to cock it, folding the thumb down over his right wrist out of the way of recoil. On target, cocked and ready to go. Obviously, this method won't work for short thumbs or for those who aren't sufficiently dexterous. The technique could be learned, but time might be better spent on other skills.

I think he also considered carry with the safety applied. The thinking was, If I lose my weapon to a bad guy and the safety is on, it may take him just long enough to find that little switch and figure out how to shoot the gun for me to get my back-up, knife, or baton into action. I don't know if he stayed with that philosphy; I haven't read him in a long time.
 
*** makes you think you know more than the designers
and handgun experts ?
Click to expand...

Wow, that was completely uncalled for.

But anyway, thanks for the advice guys. I don't have a 1911 and am not trying to start anything between the two platforms. I just wanted to find out if it's alright to thumb the hammer back on my Sig to 'replicate' the SA first shot of the 1911 for more consistent accuracy.

In a real life defensive scenerio I seriously doubt I'll be doing that, unless it's one of those deals where a guy is shooting up a mall, etc and you need to take a slightly longer shot.
 
There is nothing wrong with thumbing the hammer of a DA/SA gun but I would never do it with a SA only. For those it is hammer back, safety on.

With a DA/SA, without a safety you shouldn't have to worry horribly about first shot accuracy on a quick draw as long as you do a little practice. The first shot should be placed close enough at the ranges you are working at.

I would be more concerned with an accidental discharge...especially if you are thumbing back the hammer with your trigger in the trigger guard.

If, on the other hand, you are drawing the gun, in self defense but don't have to pull the trigger immediately...say checking out something that goes bump in the night...you will have plenty of time to cock the hammer back.

...or...

You can use the hammer cocking action as the final warning, to show you are serious, like they do on all those TV shows and movies. Seriously, though, it is a bit intimidating when someone does that.
 
It is alright to thumb cock a DA-SA pistol in the sense that it is not mechanically damaging or operationally unsafe.

I have seen people do it at IPSC and IDPA matches because they did not want to learn the double action stroke or the DA-SA transition (the Cooper "crunch-tick"). It got them to a single action start but it was substantially slower than just pulling the trigger (or flipping the safety on a 1911.) Not to mention the occasional requirement for one handed shooting.

Then there is the matter of habit and reflex. If you routinely shoot in single action by cocking the gun, are you going to go with the faster DA shot if attacked or are you going to revert to habit and feel for the hammer? If you do go DA will you hit anything? (If you think it is not possible to miss a man sized target at ten feet, you need to shoot some matches and push for top speed.)
 
If you think it is not possible to miss a man sized target at ten feet, you need to shoot some matches and push for top speed.
Click to expand...

At 10 feet? I think I could hit a man sized target, at 10 feet, by sound alone. It helps to learn to point shoot your carry.

A great drill for doing that is to install a laser on your gun. Draw quickly and hold your spot. Switch on the laser and see how you did. With a Crimson Trace laser grip it is even easier to run this drill.
 
Well, then, you are so far ahead of me that my experience is of no value.
Click to expand...

It helps that I was hit in the eye's by a radioactive isotope when pushing a blind man out of the way of a speeding truck. I was blinded but developed "sonar" vision. Woops...that wasn't me, that was Daredevil! ;-)

Seriously, I didn't mean it to be an insult...though I can see how it came out that way. :-(

Point shooting isn't magic. It just has to do with doing a lot of point shooting practice. I'm good enough to hit a man sized target, at 10 feet, but not good enough to shoot coins out of the air.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_McGivern

In my old age, my eyes aren't what they used to be, and I've read that many people in real gunfights don't even recall looking at the sights when they fired. I figure those are reasons enough to learn to hit something up close, without the benefits of the sights. I also have a set of Crimson Trace laser grips on my carry, which will work in all but the brightest conditions.
 
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Meh, dont let them get to you Jim, I know what you mean. I did just that, missing at closer distances b/c I was so hepped up on getting rounds out as quick as I could I forgot the front sight (stupid, stupid). A little work, back on the A zone!
 
:) Hey chris in va:

quote from chris:
"Wow, that was completely uncalled for." :uhoh:

I don't do much posting, but, I was embarrassed for you with that public remark. As a junior member, I apoligize that the statement was allowed. :eek:

FORUM HOUSE RULES = 3.) As a family-friendly board, we ask that you keep your language clean.

Sage:)
 
My CCW instructor told us to avoid cocking the hammer back on a DA/SA pistol during a deadly force encounter. Something about creating a hair trigger. How this plays into folks that use SAO pistols is beyond me.

I just practice a lot using DA for the first shot and SA for the followups, and it feels pretty normal now.
 
I apologize for my off the wall remark. I don't feel comfortable manually cocking the hammer back on my CZ 75B or 1911. In my younger years I did
have that skill down with a Browning Hi Power but today, I have more worry
with slipping on the commander style hammers of either of my semi-autos.

I do feel safe with my procedure of manually lowering the hammer, manually, on my CZ 75B -or just putting the safety on for Cond. 1 carry.
I do practice albeit slow 5 shot strings of DA shots, then Da first and SA
second, for range exercises.

First DA/SA I've had so it's a slow process of expanding the shooting
experience, but I prefer carry DA first shot for the CZ 75B.

FWIW - the stronger mainspring on a 1911 makes it a more
difficult manual cock.

R-
 
Chris: I shoot a Sig and a CZ 75b. Both will operate SA/DA. Nothing wrong with pulling the hammer back to fire either one SA. I do that at the range sometimes to work the SA. Shooting USPSA, I honestly can't remember a difference in that first DA pull at the end of a shoot..

IMHO: Get trigger work done if you're not happy with the DA pull ,OR sell it and buy the right action/gun for your preferred method.
 
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