Time to go Class 3. Any suggestions?

[MASTEROFMALICE]

After kicking around the idea of a .45 suppressor I've decided to go the other route and get a Short Barreled Shotgun.

I attatched a picture of a Mossberg Silver Reserve that I can pick up at WalMart for under $300 (I have a few hundred in gift cards to take the balance). I also photoshopped the stock off and the 28" barrel down to 12" and then 8" to get an idea as to what it would look like.

What do you guys think, is this feasible? The OAL on the 8" would be about 15" which isn't much larger than my Raging Bull. I know about recoil but it's only a 12 gauge pistol, how bad could it possibly be?

Would you do it? Overall cost, with a gunsmith cutting the barrels, and the $200 manufacturers cost should be under $600 but it would be ever smaller than the Serbu (albeit holding one less shell.)

 

[jpcampbell]

Its been awhile but I think the cost of a tax stamp for a short barreled shotgun or rifle is only $5.00

 

[Outlaws]

Its been awhile but I think the cost of a tax stamp for a short barreled shotgun or rifle is only $5.00

Its $200.

 

[MASTEROFMALICE]

It's $5 to transfer an "Any Other Weapon" which this shotgun would fall under only if it never had a stock attached. To manufacture it's still $200.

 

[wdlsguy]

How does the rib attach to the upper barrel? That might influence where you want to cut it.

Where does the forearm attach to the lower barrel? That will influence how short you can cut it.

Is there a bolt that attaches the stock to the receiver? You might need to shorten and thread it.

The stock will be a woodworking project.

You can always shoot Aguila Minishells.

Don't forget to engrave your name, city and state on the receiver.

 

[MASTEROFMALICE]

How does the rib attach to the upper barrel? That might influence where you want to cut it.

Where does the forearm attach to the lower barrel? That will influence how short you can cut it.

Is there a bolt that attaches the stock to the receiver? You might need to shorten and thread it.

The stock will be a woodworking project.

You can always shoot Aguila Minishells.

Don't forget to engrave your name, city and state on the receiver

I did the 8" barrel picture because that's about where the foreend screws in and so shows what I think is the minimun without redrilling the foreend and retapping the barrel.

The stock is the only portion of it I was planning on doing myself (I'm definitely more of a woodworker than a metalworker.)

What is the purpose of engraving my information on the reciever? Is that required?

Incidentally, if anyone else can recommend an alternate O/U I'd appreciate it. I'd like parts to be available for some time.

 

[CleverNickname]

What is the purpose of engraving my information on the reciever? Is that required?

For identification purposes. It's required.

 

[rcmodel]

I think that is a Genuinely Bad Idea.
Not to mention getting on BATF's radar screen for no good reason.

I had a friend who many years ago, cut off a 12 ga. single-barrel shotgun just like you pictured.

The curved pistol-grip section allowed the gun to rotate up like a single-action revolver.

That drove the opening lever completely through the web of his hand and ripped it wide open to his palm.
That required reconstructive surgery to get his thumb to work right again.

I think Ithaca determined that a 20 ga double of that size was all anyone wanted to hold in one hand about 80 years ago.
That gun was the Auto-Bugler, and it had a decided overhang at the top, and straighter up & down grip angle to prevent rotation in the hand causing injury.


rcmodel

 

[jpcampbell]

This is the ATF web site please check out section 4.1.1 Making tax. and section 4.1.3 Special (occupational) tax.
As I read this if you have a class 2 manufacture cut off the barrels and stock and register the firearm you only pay $5.00 to transfer it.
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/nfa/nfa_handbook/chapter4.pdf

 

[MASTEROFMALICE]

I somewhat modeled the hand grip off of the Speedfeed model, if anyone has seen it. It isn't a straight up and down like most Remington and Mossberg versions, but makes you cant your hand forward like a Luger.

As for the transfer. The $5.00 is for and AOW. But once a shotgun has had a stock put on it, it cannot be made into an AOW. This is why Serbu and other use the Mossberg Maverick or Persuader. Both of these shotguns can be bought with a pistol grip attached.

The kicker is even a manufacturer has to pay a $200 tax to make a SBS or AOW. Of course that cost would end up passed on to me anyway. Would I rather buy a $400 shotgun have a gunsmith hack it up and transfer it to me for $5? Well......yeah. But I can't.

Incidentally, I don't really see myself putting 3" slugs through it on a regular basis. I think it would be better suited for a reduced recoil buffered buckshot load, to try to keep the grouping somewhat together. I've even thought of having the barrels threaded for chokes if the spread was too far out of control.

 

[Amish_Bill]

No, a manufacturer Does Not pay $200 per item they make. They can register whatever number of items they like with only the payment of their normal license fees.

 

[Riss]

Not going to read through all of the above, but some people were off a bit. Short barrelled shotguns, SBS, you can make for $200. Also costs $200 to transfer. So is cheaper to make yourself if that is what you want. Either make it for $200 or transfer for $200. I would rather make so I know its what I want. I did a legal length shotgun out of a Ruger Red Label over under. 18" barrels, cut off stock. Is now purple chameleon paint. "The purple Passion" it is so named. I love it and sold it back to the original owner he loved it so much. OR You can find a shotgun that has a pistol grip only, have a Class 2 manufacturer make it into an any other weapon, AOW. Transfers back to you for $5. Still would cost you $200 to make though so going this route is only good if you can find a manufacturer to make it for you. Main point is try to make the pistol grip into a birds head grip, similar to the old Auto Burglar Gun. Was made by H&R, maybe, about 80 years ago. A good shaped grip, and maybe some grip tape and DEFINTELY some of those Aguila 1" long mini 12ga will make it fun to shoot. OR you can go down to a 20ga. The recoil is about 1/3 of the 12ga and no special loads required.

 

[jpcampbell]

I have never heard of a rule that says once a stock has been put on a shotgun it can't be an AOW. Once a Class 2 manufacture cuts off the barrel and its overall length is under 26 inches, and he registers it, it is a AOW and can be transfered for $5.00.
Any sporting shotgun or rifle can become a AOW.
A weapon like you are planing is for close in work and the pattern won't be helped by chocks, you will also be surprised by the reduced recoil and large amount of unburned powder as well as the flash because of the lack of barrel length to burn all the propellant.

I have built many short barreled shotguns and rifles, the one that has always impressed me is the Mossberg 500 with pistol grip and pistol grip forearm cut off at 1 inch past the mag, tube.It is easy to handle and conceal.

Amish_Bill is right the Class 2 manufacture does not pay the $200.00 because he is licensed to make them, ( section 4.1.3 Special (occupational) tax) http://www.atf.gov/firearms/nfa/nfa_handbook/chapter4.pdf
I charged $100.00 to do the work and register the gun if the customer supplied the gun and parts. Some may charge more some less but it beats $200.00

 

[wdlsguy]

If you're willing to settle for a single shot, you can register a T/C Encore pistol frame as an AOW, and install a shortened shotgun barrel and forend. (I have one of these.) Or you could register a T/C Encore shotgun as an SBS and install a pistol grip, shortened shotgun barrel and forend.

 

[Riss]

The rule IS that once a shotgun has a full stock it cannot be made into an AOW. That is the difference between an SBS and an AOW. As far as registering an Encore you dont have to. Simply get a 45/410 barrel and use as a pistol. ATF tried to rule that combo as an SBS but they changed their minds.

 

[jpcampbell]

I have been unable to find a ruling on the ATF web site saying a shotgun manufactured with a stock can not be AOW. I may be looking in the wrong place do you have a link to the ruling?
If this is in fact a rule I have been registering AOW shotguns incorrectly for many years and the Atf has missed it.

 

[wdlsguy]

As far as registering an Encore you dont have to. Simply get a 45/410 barrel and use as a pistol.

I didn't want to be limited to .410, and the transfer tax was only $5.

 

[Taurus 617 CCW]

You could always try to get an AA-12 shotgun. Full auto with a 35 round drum magazine. Self lubricating, and puts out a hailstorm of rounds in a short amount of time. Only question is, can you afford the ammo?

 

[wdlsguy]

have been unable to find a ruling on the ATF web site saying a shotgun manufactured with a stock can not be AOW.

I can't help you with a ruling, but see pages 6 through 8 of the ATF NFA Handbook for pictures of a "weapon made from a shotgun" and "any other weapons".

 

[uzimon]

cut your own
i got an 870 i put a knoxx copstock on, and chopped even with the mag cap
its 23.3" folded
got only $450 into it, and i can still put a hunting bbl on it and suddenly it turns back into a title 1

 

[MASTEROFMALICE]

Uzi, what's the barrel length?

What I was going for was the shortest overall shotgun I could think of, and because of the lack of an action the double barrel came to mind.