Tired of "Assault Weapons"

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Will this ever end? Has anyone ever got into an argument with someone who claimed to know what "Assault Weapons" are, and why they should be banned? It's driving me insane!!!
I suppose, if history is any indicator, one could "Assault" someone or something using a flintlock firearm, archery tackle or even a stick or rock, making them all "Assault Weapons" de facto. It has been done in the past, eh? Not to mention "assault empty or filled hands and shod feet".

Don't let the bustards grind ya down (Illegitimi non carborundum). Semantics and rhetoric are useful "assault" tools in the right hands, very dangerous when misused (sound familiar?), and they can and will be used against you in a court of public opinion as their wielders see fit.

Tools are gadgets; the mind, the weapon.

But yeah, I get your point. Will it ever end? Probably not. Best just to give 'them' a wry smile and offer "I did not know that. Thank you". Makes 'them' feel better evidently. Like it matters.

In light of today, Be Thankful we can have this discussion and that you have plenty of ammunition on hand to fight the good fight, whatever it may be. Stay Safe.
 
Here we go trying to convince everyone (anti's) that our black guns are not assault rifles (good luck on that one).

It is time we wake up and understand that a rifle that can hold 30 rounds of ammo, is a "Assault Rifle" and is used as such, trying to convince others that it is not is just a waste of time since they will never believe you. What we should do is try to teach them that "Assault Rifles" are a good thing. That being able to protect one's home, family and country is a good thing, it makes us all safer and protects us all.

I have hunting rifles, target rifles and yes assault rifles, each has it's place. But trying to call a cow a moose or a deer an elk, is just not going to fly. Excuse me I have to go elk hunting, since deer season just opened here (LOL).

Jim
 
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The real issue here is that select-fire assault rifles shouldn't be banned anyway. Arguing semantics doesn't help anybody. You're just trying to assuage people's already misguided fears instead of explaining to them why legal full-autos aren't and really never were a problem.

Call my AR-15 whatever you want. It shouldn't be banned.
 
Andrew I'm truely happy you brought up the point that the Ak47/AR15 (M-16) were designed for the sole purpose of assualting/killing and military use.

Not to long ago I had this exact same conversation with a family member who said that these semi auto, civilian owned weapons were made for the sole purpose of killing people. I tried and tried to have a meaningful debate with her but she was having none of it and repeatedly said that military guns should not be in the hands of civilians. Her husband who either

A.) didnt want to get the wrath of his wifes anger pointed towards him or

B.) actually, truely believed her ideas and thoughts, agreed with her and flat out stated "military guns are meant for killing people and in the wrong hands could kill many innocent people."

I sat there for a moment and tried to recall if he owned any firearms and I remembered him talking about shooting his 30-06. I asked the husband to take a look at his bolt-action, "non-military" rifle, which he was happy to do. After laughing uncontrollably I brought it to both of the their attention that the 1903 Springfield that he so truely loved to shoot and hunt with was indeed a military firearm and to bury the knife alittle further into the pile I mentioned that his other rifle was also a sporterized 1903.

They said that I was a complete liar until they pulled it up on the computer and read endless threads regarding the Springfield 1903.
 
Isn't changing the name to "Modern Sporting Rifle" playing into the anti hands? I mean, according to them, if it's sporting, then we don't NEED it, but we just WANT it, right?:evil:

I'll go with the legal definitions on this. For instance, in my state, a folding-stock AK is called an Assault Weapon. Then again, according to certain sections of NYS law, it's not even a firearm (a firearm being what the rest of the world calls a "handgun"... We have rifles, shotguns and firearms here. My CCW allows me to carry a "firearm" or a "pistol").

I learned something a long time ago, and I think I should share it -- Don't argue semantics. Argue substance.

It's like pulling your hair out over "clip" and "magazine." It does nothing, because in the end the anti will stand there and say "Magazine, clip - it still holds lots of bullets."
 
I will give you one more "incident" that happened with another anit- "assualt" weapon family member.

My cousin had a ruger 10-22 that had an arch angel stock on it and a 30rd magazine. He constantly talked about how his mother would bash him for having an "assualt" weapon and tried to get him to sell it because of the deadly things that gun was capable of.

However her husband also has a ruger 10-22, plain jane walnut stock and the factory 10rd magazine. While we were over one night I had my cousin bring up the "assault" weapon ordeal. Once again his mother went off on a complete tangent about how deadly they are. I just smiled and said that her husband has a .22 rifle so what was the big deal, to which she replies "his is a normal gun thats sole intent is to hunt for food and not kill people." I made it a point to ask both the cousin and the husband get their guns, after bringing them out I asked what the diffrence was between the 2. She pointed out that the "assualt" weapon was black and intimidating but the biggest factor was that it had a 30 rd magazine. I calmy took the 30rd'r out of my cousins gun and placed it into her husbands, then asked what the diffrence was. She looked at me with a bewildered look on her face. I then went on to tell her that both her husband and son had the EXACT same gun but with diffrent stocks.
 
It is time we wake up and understand that a rifle that can hold 30 rounds of ammo, is a "Assault Rifle" and is used as such, trying to convince others that it is not is just a waste of time since they will never believe you.
It's time you wake up and understand the correct definition of an assault rifle instead of misusing the term to incorrectly describe a rifle. Magazine capacity has nothing to do with the definition of a rifle whether it is an assault rifle or not. There is a very definite and correct definition of an assault rifle. Anything that does not fit that specific definition is not an assault rifle. Period.
 
i asked someone to define "Assault Weapon", and they simply said "AK-47", and I asked "why?" and got nothing.

Sometimes when I hear the term assault [anything], I tend to ask if the person using it is a supporter or even a disciple of Adolf Hitler. When they ask why, I reply by asking if they have some other reason to use the propagandist "assault" prefix, originally coined by Hitler, when talking about firearms. Not exactly eloquent, but not the slightest bit worse than subjective and biased misuse of terminology.

In my experience, no-one who is knowledgeable and not biased against firearm ownership uses the "assault" term, except when talking about real full auto assault rifles.
 
It's really very simple. An "assault rifle" is used by assailants. An "anti-assault rifle" is used by defenders.

The next time the issue arises, nod your head enthusiastically and agree entirely that assault weapons ought to be banned and note that's one reason that you maintain one or more anti-assault rifles. ;-)
 
A firearm one carries purely for self defense is clearly a "weapon." But so is a knife carried for the same purpose. A firearm designed for carrying out a military-style offensive against a legitimate enemy force is properly termed an "assault weapon." But so is a catapult or a spear, if that's what the technology of the time dictates.

However, as firearm ownership advocates and supporters of the RKBA, we must achieve balance in our own contribution to the rhetoric. If we use the term "weapons" let alone "assault weapons" to label firearms that we own or wish to own, we know what we mean. However, we must also realize that anti-gun people relish hearing us use that term so they can parlay it into, "See, you gun guys are all bloodthirsty; you go around looking for somebody to shoot with your 'weapons.'"

There are lots of gun people who will insist that calling what they like to think of as a "weapon" by the terms "firearm" or "gun" is nothing more than cow-towing to the antis, but I beg to differ; it's exercising wisdom and restraint. Case in point--the NRA is THE main reason that we still enjoy RKBA in this country, and its instructors are trained to strictly avoid using the term "weapon." Why? Not because firearms are never to be used as weapons--the NRA fully understands that at times they are and that the RKBA is predicated on the concept that there may come a time when they must be--but because the term itself is emotionally loaded and is therefore a detriment to the cause of lawful ownership of firearms.

Using a term that we know serves to antagonize--especially when there are more innocuous terms that can serve perfectly well--is patently unwise. Let's say your significant other drives a body-on-frame SUV based on the same company's pick-up, and she calls it her "car," but you insist on calling it a "truck" because the latter term is technically accurate. If you know that every time you do this she feels a little twinge of anger at you--in spite of your technical correctness--how smart are you really being? Not smart at all, I would argue. Smart-alec, but not smart. Your interests would be far better served if you got into the habit of calling it her "car," because that's how she sees it and because going her way in this instance enhances the relationship and does you no harm.

It's the same when we insist on saying "weapons" when we talk with an anti about firearms. We ought to be able to put on our big-boy pants and disagree without being purposely disagreeable.
 
I object to the anti gunners defining and bastardizing the terms that the pro gunners then pick up.

A true assault rifle is capable if full auto. If a firearm is not capable if that, then it is NOT an assault rifle.

But the antis quietly keep changing the parameters of their definitions to include all sorts of other guns.

Calling something a "weapon" isn't accurate:

"He had a weapon!"

" What kind of weapon? Gun? Knife? Club?"

"It was a bag of wet noodles and he looked like he knew how to use it!"

So while it's semantics to some degree, the goal is to get the person that never thought past the terms and phrases crafted by the antis to start thinking past them. Several examples have been given, making that very point.

On one hand, you have people arguing, even pleading, that guns were not designed to kill. They launch into an eloquent speech about how their gun was designed to contain a controlled explosion that propelled a projectile down a rifled tube at sufficient velocity to strike a paper target some distance away. Yeah, good luck with that. If making small groups on paper is the only purpose of a gun, then why not "shoot" laser "bullets" on special targets instead?

An electric chair was truly designed to kill. That is its only function. You can argue that guns can do many other things besides kill. This is very true, but if guns could not kill, would they be nearly as important to freedom and liberty as they are? I submit they would not.

The Second Amendment ain't about "sporting" arms, but arms suitable for defending life and country. IE; the same type of arms currently in use by the military. The Founding Fathers would likely be puzzled why every able bodied person did NOT have their own full auto M-16 or M-4 and Beretta M-9
 
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This subject has been beaten to death countless times. People who want to and choose to learn will look at so called Assault Weapons with an open mind. Those who are ignorant and choose not to learn will forever remain ignorant.

Take a look back to 1994 and Clinton's Assault Weapons Ban:

The Federal Assault Weapons Ban (AWB) (or Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act) was a subtitle of the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994, a federal law in the United States that included a prohibition on the manufacture for civilian use of certain semi-automatic firearms, so called "assault weapons". The 10-year ban was passed by Congress on September 13, 1994, and was signed into law by President Bill Clinton the same day. The ban only applied to weapons manufactured after the date of the ban's enactment.

The Federal Assault Weapons Ban expired on September 13, 2004, as part of the law's sunset provision. There have been multiple attempts to renew the ban, but no bill has reached the floor for a vote.

The biggest problem was those supporting this useless feel good and do nothing legislation were unable to actually adequately define what an assault weapon actually was so the following was applied:


Semi-automatic rifles able to accept detachable magazines and two or more of the following:

Folding or telescoping stock
Pistol grip
Bayonet mount
Flash suppressor, or threaded barrel designed to accommodate one
Grenade launcher (more precisely, a muzzle device that enables launching or firing rifle grenades, though this applies only to muzzle mounted grenade launchers and not those mounted externally).

Semi-automatic pistols with detachable magazines and two or more of the following:

Magazine that attaches outside the pistol grip
Threaded barrel to attach barrel extender, flash suppressor, handgrip, or suppressor
Barrel shroud that can be used as a hand-hold
Unloaded weight of 50 oz (1.4 kg) or more
A semi-automatic version of a fully automatic firearm.

Semi-automatic shotguns with two or more of the following:

Folding or telescoping stock
Pistol grip
Fixed capacity of more than 5 rounds
Detachable magazine.

Think about something:
The Federal Assault Weapons Ban (AWB) (or Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act)

Catchy huh? Now who is kidding who? Public Safety? How stupid can these people and their supporters have been? When this legislation was voted on and passed into law less than one percent of the gun related crime here in the US was being committed with so called "Assault Weapons", less than one percent! So all the years later what did that ban accomplish? Nothing, absolutely nothing! There was no decrease in crime and the public sure as hell was not any safer. I challenge anyone who would support such stupid feel good and do nothing legislation to show me where the last assault weapons ban did anything.

What we have in the US is a coarsening of the US culture and leadership too inept to deal with the root cause of the problem which sure as hell isn't the gun! Until we fix a judicial system more enmeshed with the rights of the criminal than the victim nothing will change and any new weapons band will not fix the problems. You can't legislate morality, just won't work.

The quotes used in this post were taken from here.

Ron
 
assault weapons and clips are here to stay it is easier to get past it than to change others vocabulary
 
+1 one. This ship sailed a long time ago. Attitudes can be changed, but "assault weapon" is in the modern American English vocabulary to describe civilian legal military-style weapons. You can be a stickler about not using it, but the reality is that when the term is used most all Americans (pro, anti and uninterested in 2A stuff) know what is generally being discussed.
 
Everyone knows that ASSAULT PIES are much more dangerous.

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The thing is; these are all rifles. I don't need people telling me how im going to use said rifle. It's a rifle. Period. Whatever i use it for, is irrelevant. It's a rifle no matter what. "Assault" this, "Assault" that, the only way to describe any firearm is by it's mechnical function/action. I know i opened up a can of worms, but its very interesting to read other people's input.
 
Many pardons if this has been mentioned already, but I believe the term "Assault Rifle" or "Assault Weapon" is a term used in our modern culture by anti 2nd amendment gun control extreemists to describe some weapons as "too dangerous" for the general public.

Whatever claims they might make to the contrary, the whole point of anti gun proponents using that term is to describe a weapon that no good or sane individual could possibly have a reason to own.

If I'm correct, I think the first rifle referred to as an "Assault Rifle" was the German Sturmgewehr 44. (The name means "Storming Rifle" or "Assault Rifle"). I'm pretty sure this reference to a weapon in Hitler's arsenal and the attempt to describe modern guns with the same term is no coincidence. What better way to posture yourself than to imply your opponent has something in common with Hitler?

To me, calling a rifle an "Assault Rifle" is like calling it an "Evil Weapon" or "Evil Gun" In addition, it's also technically innacurate, just like calling a 1911 an "automatic" pistol or certain types of rounds "Cop Killers".

Anyway, that's my 2 cents. Sorry about the rant, but this whole subject really works me up.
 
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Are the AR's limited to single shot in the US? Is it possible to to modify them back to fully automatic?

Are AK's also modified for single shot use?
Andrew, if by "single shot" you mean "one shot per trigger pull", then yes, at least insofar as civilian (NFA Title 1) guns go, and no, they are built on civilian receivers that are designed to make them difficult to convert to full auto.

Under U.S. Federal law, all guns capable of firing more than one shot per trigger pull, as well as all guns that can be easily converted to do so, are subject to the very strict Title 2 provisions of the National Firearms Act of 1934 as amended in 1986, instead of the Title 1 provisions that apply to ordinary civilian guns. Title 1 guns include deer rifles, squirrel rifles, AR-15's, civilian AK lookalikes, etc. Restricted Title 2 weapons include actual select-fire M16's/M4's, actual select-fire AK's, howitzers, M203's, RPG's, sound suppressors, short-barreled rifles and shotguns, and so on.

In a nutshell, it is a 10-year Federal felony to possess any Title 2 weapon in the United States outside of police/military duty or government service, unless you first obtain special authorization from the BATFE (for automatic weapons, it's a Form 4), which is technically a tax stamp but in practice works like an authorization form. This the same level of control exercised over things like 105mm howitzers, artillery shells, grenades, shoulder-fired rockets, and the like, and involves a more extensive application process than an ordinary gun purchase. In addition, all automatic weapons manufactured after 1986 are strictly limited to police/military/government and their suppliers, which means that actual Title 2 AR's and AK's are rare collector's pieces (I've seen prices of $15,000-$17,000 for an M16 or an actual civilian-transferable pre-1986 AK-47).

FWIW, any gun easily converted to full auto *is* a full auto for the purposes of Federal law even if not actually converted, and is therefore subject to the Title 2 restrictions and the 1986 ban.

The U.S. "assault weapons" ban 1994-2004 affected *only* non-automatic Title 1 civilian guns, and the *only* difference between a banned gun and a non-banned gun was configuration. An AR-15 or a civilian AK with a smooth muzzle or a pinned-on brake was not an "assault weapon" under the law, but a Ruger mini-14 or 10/22 was if you fitted it with a stock that folds for storage. It had nothing to do with "military" origin, rate of fire, lethality, or use in crime, and everything to do with cosmetics and ergonomics. Under the law, a newly manufactured rifle could have a protruding handgrip OR a flash suppressor/flame damper OR an adjustable stock, but could not have more than one such feature.

The irony of the whole brouhaha is that rifles of any type are consistently the least misused class of firearm in the United States, accounting for only about 2.5% of U.S. homicides. Many U.S. states report zero rifle homicides in any given year.

As to the broader question in the OP, yes, using the term "assault weapon" to refer to civilian rifles is ignorant. The term is loaded, and so elastic as to be meaningless (under the 1994 definition, a SAR-1 7.62x39mm AK wasn't an "assault weapon", but a Ruger 10/22 with a Butler Creek stock was).
 
My firearms are for punching paper, thinning varmints, but first and foremost for deflecting a possible assault.

Anti assault weapons?
 
As was stated earlier but I'll word it my own way.

Assault rifle could also be the most popular long gun that was fielded on most of the planet.
1770's British Brown Bess Flint Lock .75 caliber

My point is that no matter if it's a Match Lock to a modern semi auto rifle/shotgun, we need to try to keep a level head & teach others about firearms because the antis are already at that each day educating others who are on the fence on what is a good gun & what is not.
Then eventually they will make it where all firearms are bad.
 
It is very important for the left to choose the labels they bestow on their enemies. Pistols and revolvers lack focus. "Handguns "covers everything and can be hammered upon. Assault rifles sound ominous, and they can define just about anything they want to ban as an "assault rifle". My '03A3 is an assault rifle under a liberal definition. A acquaintance commented that he couldn't understand why I owned an AR because their only use was to kill people :banghead: I replied that "the second amendment does not guarantee me the right to target shoot, or duck hunt, but right to own a weapon to defend myself and my family from tyranny. the tyranny of street crime, and the tyranny of a ruler (such as King George in the Constitutions context) who denies his subjects basic human rights." He hasn't spoken to me since :D
 
Because they are "assault" rifles. The first being the StG 44 which was labeled by Hitler as the "storm rifle" as in "to storm" or assault a position. Granted civilian versions (AR-15, AK-47) are not selective fire, which is the truest definition of storm or assault rifle, but there lineage to the STG44 is apparent to me.

The translation of Sturmgewehr literally means "storm rifle"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StG_44

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_rifle
 
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