Titegroup vs Bullseye for 38spl

[gonoles_1980]

I've been using titegroup for 38spl's, but not really happy with how little of the case is filled and how hard it would be to find a double charge. I currently use 3.5gr of Titegroup with 158gr LSWC, looking at the speer load manual, the starting load of Bullseye is 3.1gr, with a max of 3.5gr. I remember back when I had W231, I was using 3.8gr and that was filling the case enough, I could easily tell a double charge.

Will Bullsye in the 3.1 gr grain fill the case enough to easily see a double charge? (I'm assuming the volume is bigger than titegroup).

Note: Corrected my bullseye number, I was looking at the +p numbers.

 

[Haxby]

Going by the chart for RCBS little dandy powder measure rotors, 3.7 gr bullseye has the same volume as 4.7 gr titegroup or 4.2 gr 231.
It sounds like you're looking at +p data in the Speer book.

 

[gonoles_1980]

Good catch, that was the +p data. I'll update.

 

[Walkalong]

Bullseye is pretty dense as well, but I still prefer it over Titegroup. That said, I prefer AA 32 or W-231 over both of those in .38 Spl.

 

[ljnowell]

AA#2 is my go to choice but it's a very small amount of powder in the case also.

 

[gonoles_1980]

I'd prefer W231, just can't get any. I use Bullseye for my 357 lead loads, seems to work ok (I'm no marksman, so works means the bullet comes out of the gun and hits a target). My only other choice is AA#5, but I was planning on saving that for my 357 heavier loads when I run out of N320 soon.

 

[Toprudder]

If your main criteria is how much you fill the casing, use Trailboss.

 

[dbmjr1]

Bullseye is another dense powder that can easily double charge.

It's also one of my favorite powders. A little dirty, but very consistent lot to lot. It's called Bullseye for a reason.

See if you can find some Unique if you're looking to fill a case. Very versatile stuff.

 

[Jim Watson]

I like W231 for many purposes but for extra light loads it is not the best.
I have used one can of AA2, one can of Titegroup, less than a can of Trail Boss; but I burnt up a can of Bullseye and am now nibbling my way through 8 lbs, 3.2 grains at a time.

 

[gonoles_1980]

My biggest issue is finding pounder. I have 8lbs of W231 on back order for 9 months now and 4lbs of H38 on back order for a month. I did get some bulleye from Bass Pro shop, they're notify me when my local store gets it, and unique is on back order.

It's just near impossible to find powder and I'm down to 3.5 lbs, a mix of titegroup, bullseye, N320 and AA#5. Nearly out of the N320.

 

[beag_nut]

I just began using Titegroup, and I just might like it better than Bullseye, at least for .38 and .357, loads on the lighter side. I always flashlight my filled cases to find double charges (all lined up together in a loading block), and any doubles show right up. The big plus for Titegroup for me is that it is appreciably cleaner burning than Bullseye, plus I happened upon an 8 lb. can recently. And my Bullseye is getting really low.

 

[gonoles_1980]

Beag_nut, what made me nervous with titegroup was I double charged a nickel plated brass on purpose. I did the flashlight check, and I could barely tell it was a double charge. I like it, shoots ok, maybe I'm just being paranoid. But it seemed back when I had W231, it was way easier to pick a double charge out with the flashlight check. I did see the test I did, but it wasn't overly obvious.

 

[ljnowell]

Beag_nut, what made me nervous with titegroup was I double charged a nickel plated brass on purpose. I did the flashlight check, and I could barely tell it was a double charge. I like it, shoots ok, maybe I'm just being paranoid. But it seemed back when I had W231, it was way easier to pick a double charge out with the flashlight check. I did see the test I did, but it wasn't overly obvious.

It's about developing a routine. Falling back on fluffy powders to prevent double charges is a crutch that will limit you to certain powders, excluding some truly great options.

When I batch loaded I would resize and prime, putting them in a bag for later or in a loading block upside down(primer up). The cases left the block to be charged one at a time and I shook them
Upside down to verify they were empty prior to charging them. Never charge a case that isn't upside down

If you do that double charges aren't going to happen anyway.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I'd prefer W231, just can't get any. I use Bullseye for my 357 lead loads, seems to work ok (I'm no marksman, so works means the bullet comes out of the gun and hits a target). My only other choice is AA#5, but I was planning on saving that for my 357 heavier loads when I run out of N320 soon.

I would never use Bullseye for .357 Magnum loads unless you are actually loading a .38 Special round in .357 Magnum brass. (and maybe not even then) Your AA#5 is a better choice for lead bullets in the .357 Magnum although I prefer HS-6. For heavier .357 Magnum loads I would go with AA#9.

Sorry you can't find any W231. I don't know what I would do without it since I use it for most of my handgun loading.

 

[ljnowell]

I would never use Bullseye for .357 Magnum loads unless you are actually loading a .38 Special round in .357 Magnum brass. (and maybe not even then) Your AA#5 is a better choice for lead bullets in the .357 Magnum although I prefer HS-6. For heavier .357 Magnum loads I would go with AA#9.



Sorry you can't find any W231. I don't know what I would do without it since I use it for most of my handgun loading.

A buddy of mine once loaded max loads of bullseye in 357 mag. It was what he had and he didn't want to use any of the 2400 I offered him.

He was one of those type that believed bullseye would give higher velocity than 2400 because he was shooting it from a snub nose.

Anyway, it was quite a loud boom, lots of muzzle flip, and after the first 100 he loaded he took me up on that offer of some 2400.

 

[Jim Watson]

The only gun ever blown up on our old range was a .357 with max loads of Bullseye.
A double max load did not leave much to take home.
The really bad part was, it was loaner ammo:
Shooter: I am going home, I am out of ammo.
Loader: Here, take some of mine.
KaBoom.

 

[gonoles_1980]

One of these days I'll get 8lbs of W231 showing up on my doorstep, or 4lbs of HP38, both of which are on back order, the W231 for 9months, the HP38 for a month. Until then, making due. So I'm thinking of just doing the following, using the bullseye just for the 38's (though I've been happy with the 357 lead loads with it), the titegroup for the 9mm and the AA#5 for the 357 lead loads, and hope I get more powder for the heavier 357 loads when the .25lb of N320 I have left runs out. I did order some unique from bass pro shops to be shipped to my local store (on backorder).

 

[LiveLife]

While waiting for W231/HP-38, you can also look around for Red Dot/Promo. I have used them for 38 Spl and since they are fluffy powders, double charge is more noticeable.

 

[Walkalong]

Zip is a close cousin to W-231. If some shows up, grab it. It's good stuff.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Zip is a close cousin to W-231. If some shows up, grab it. It's good stuff.

I agree Zip is a close match for W231 from what I saw with the one pound I was able to find years ago. Western powders are nonexistent where I live. The Zip and A#5 I was able to buy was at Cabela's, a 70+ mile road trip from me. (one way)

 

[TfflHndn]

Red Dot, 700x and Clays are all on the fluffier side and will help avoid a double charge, but I agree with comments above that a good routine and careful checking will all but eliminate any chance of a double so the choice of powder should not limit you on that account. Good luck and be safe.

 

[sellersm]

To answer your question, OP, none of the faster powders will fill the case very much!

As mentioned, if you want to "see" a lot of powder in the case, use a slower powder: Trail Boss will work great for that!