To .22 or Not to .22

[Jeb Stuart]

How does the trigger vary between the 9mm and .22 lcr? I've thought about buying one in .22 but only if the trigger stages similar to my .38.

I posted about this before somewhere. I measured the LCR9mm around 8.1 lbs and the LCR22 around 10 lbs. Yes, a difference in weight, and some find it on the heavy side. However, I am a avid shooter and consequently started putting a lot of rounds down range with. Before long, I just adjusted to it, and it broke in, and quite frankly do not even notice it other than to say it makes the 9mm feel even lighter. I love shooting both gun and they are in fact on my list as "Fun guns". I can shoot the 9mm all day long but typically shoot about 200 rds per session. I can really get into shooting the 22.cal. Train often and you will surprise your self how accurate these guns really are. I love shooting the 22.cal with the Hotter Aguila ammo. More of a recoil and feels almost like a magnum round.

But if you own a LCR you know that the trigger is especially smooth and rolling. Does ot feel like the actual pull weight.

 

[muzzleblast...]

IMHO, if you actually want to build shooting skill, the .22LR is absolutely, 100% indispensable... ... There is simply nothing better for learning the fundamentals than a good .22LR...

^^^^^ This!

 

[someguy2800]

I posted about this before somewhere. I measured the LCR9mm around 8.1 lbs and the LCR22 around 10 lbs. Yes, a difference in weight, and some find it on the heavy side. However, I am a avid shooter and consequently started putting a lot of rounds down range with. Before long, I just adjusted to it, and it broke in, and quite frankly do not even notice it other than to say it makes the 9mm feel even lighter. I love shooting both gun and they are in fact on my list as "Fun guns". I can shoot the 9mm all day long but typically shoot about 200 rds per session. I can really get into shooting the 22.cal. Train often and you will surprise your self how accurate these guns really are. I love shooting the 22.cal with the Hotter Aguila ammo. More of a recoil and feels almost like a magnum round.

But if you own a LCR you know that the trigger is especially smooth and rolling. Does ot feel like the actual pull weight.

And if someone does not like that much pull weight I'm certain there is an aftermarket spring solution such as what I have in my sp101.

 

[P5 Guy]

Air guns are fun, little noise and a good one will have fine accuracy.

 

[aarondhgraham]

To .22 or Not to .22

This question really doesn't have a right or wrong answer,,,
Like most either/or questions it is a matter of situation.

I used to tell people that I recommend starting out with a .22,,,
Then upgrade to a centerfire after they become proficient with the rimfire.

But in recent times I've changed my mind on that,,,
Now I ask them if they want a gun strictly for self defense or for sport/recreation.

If they say self defense then I recommend they go ahead and research centerfire handguns,,,
Of course I also offer to assist/counsel them in their handgun search and selection,,,
And I strongly urge them to train/practice with the gun as often as possible.

I know many people who only own the one handgun they have for self defense,,,
And in truth if they are armed for just that one purpose,,,
One good handgun is all they need.

On the other hand though,,,
If they express a desire to become a recreational shooter,,,
That's when I recommend a .22 of some type as their first handgun.

The reason for this is mainly due to ammo costs,,,
Let's face it, ammo costs money and .22 is as inexpensive as it comes.

If they are going to shot for sport/recreation,,,
They will probably want to shoot a lot and often,,,
So both as a low-recoil learning tool and a fun play-toy,,,
A decent .22 handgun is an inexpensive and practical choice.

I've known only a very few recreational shooters who stop with just one handgun,,,
So in all probability they will all purchase a centerfire gun in the future,,,
I've also never known a shooter to regret owning a good .22,,,
Even if they leave it in the safe after their novice period.

Me, I'm a recreational shooter at heart,,,
So I have a somewhat large collection of rimfire range toys,,,
They allow me to shoot often not have to worry too much about ammunition costs.

The part of me that is concerned with self defense of me and mine,,,
Really only needs that one well chosen handgun,,,
And it shouldn't be a .22.

Just my 2-cents worth.

Aarond

.

 

[Bushpilot]

I think a 22 is a great way to start (I started with a Ruger MkII) learning to shoot a handgun. Plus, a .22 is always a cheap way to get some practice and have fun even after you begin shooting center fire handguns....

 

[gulogulo1970]

Many, not all, new shooters are filled with a fair amount of fear when shooting a gun for the first time. A 22LR can subdue these fears with an idea of, "that's not bad at all." It builds confidence in the neophyte shooter for sure, then try a 9mm or 38 Special.

It is easier to not start with a flinch than to get rid of a flinch.

 

[CraigC]

Yep, a flinch is a lot like an STD. A lot easier to avoid than to get rid of.

(not speaking from personal experience)

 

[doubleh]

Yep, a flinch is a lot like an STD. A lot easier to avoid than to get rid of.

(not speaking from personal experience)

I believe that's true but like you, I have no personal experience.

I'm a firm believer in starting a new shooter off with a 22 rimfire. You learn the basics with only little recoil and no muzzle blast to contend with. If you were teaching a new driver would you start out with a Corvette or something quite a bit more sedate?

 

[oldrevolverguy]

I believe the answer must be based on what the new shooters situation is.

I gave my 6 year old son his first gun, an H&R Single Shot 22 with a 2X7 Scope. I wanted him to develop basic skills and confidence that would start him on a love affair with guns and shooting.

Conversely, I have taught victims of rape, newly widowed women with children and people under direct threat from harm by bad actors. For those, I started them a Glock 19 9MM. The need to develop a self-defense capability very quickly was the highest priority. 3 two-hour sessions later they could perform the basics.

Will they develop the love for the art like my son has, who is to say.

Given the luxury of time a 22 is a GREAT way to start.

For me, an instructor and competitive shooter for 40 years, I love shooting a fine 22. It takes away all excuses for poor fundamentals. No recoil or muzzle blast to complicate things. My Ruger MK III Target with the right ammunition will produce accuracy many rifles struggle to match as long as I do my part.

YMMV

 

[CraigC]

I believe that's true but like you, I have no personal experience.

I meant with STD's.

I do have experience with developing a flinch and it is an ongoing effort to suppress it.

 

[Mike .45]

We teach a lot of new shooters. We aren't instructors or anything but my wife's family is huge (like they have to rent a hall for a Xmas party kind of big.) We always seem to be teaching some one.

We always start them off with a few mags from her Buckmark and move them up from there. Usually up to a .380 or .38 and then up to a full size 9mm. I like to make sure they shoot a full size gun on day one.

Some learn faster than others and some are just plain afraid and want to just keep shooting .22 and that's fine. We have had several that worked their way up the first day and had accuracy issues that they wanted help with. (Some do quite well and some just want to waste ammo though) Usually I will help them out with whatever hand gun they say they like the best but a few needed to go back to the .22lr.

They are a useful training tool for some people but I learned on centerfire handguns as a kid and I have never really viewed them as necessary. My wife however loves shooting her Buckmark. Shoots it more than anything else. They are fun and cheap to shoot so we bought a few for the kids. But 2 of the 3 kids have moved on to bigger guns.

I always think of .22's as plinker and fun guns. A little bit of a luxury actually. I didn' have one for a long time because back when I was starting my family money was tight. I shot my Ruger p89DC and later a Beretta 92 and I couldn't afford second hand gun. It was never a necessity to have a practice or target gun. I always felt like well you only have a 100 rounds so you best make them count.

 

[someguy2800]

I will add to that there is a difference between flinching and anticipation/poor follow through.

Anticipating/poor follow through is where your making wrist and grip movements before the shot breaks trying to counteract the movement of the gun under recoil. Your not a wuss if you anticipate, its really just a timing problem. This is what a 22 really helps with a lot since it’s way more perceptible that your moving before the break.

Flinching is where a person is actually tensing up, cringing, or even closing there eyes as they shoot. If someone is doing this there not ready for the caliber they are shooting. Once you get up in the really heavy recoiling stuff with 40 ft lbs of recoil energy the only way to fix that is to work up slowly and practice and mental concentration. All the 22 shooting in the world will not keep you from flinching with that.

 

[CraigC]

All the 22 shooting in the world will not keep you from flinching with that.

Sure it will. Concentrating on the fundamentals (sight picture/trigger press/grip consistency) is what is needed. Sometimes the trick is transferring that to centerfire shooting but it's 100% mental. I learned to shoot a 1911 .45ACP well with a rimfire conversion.

 

[aarondhgraham]

I assumed from the original post that the new shooter was buying a first handgun.

If a newbie asks me to take him/her handgun shooting,,,
It's almost a certainty that I'll start them off with a .22 handgun.

In that case I usually bring out my Beretta Model 87 in .22 LR,,,
It's medium size/weight and has all the features I deem important.

Once they get some ease using that rimfire,,,
I'll usually switch them to my Beretta Model 85 in .380 ACP.

But I stand by my earlier post,,,
I don't think it is necessary to start with a .22 handgun,,,
Especially when you/they know that they want a handgun only for self defense.

I have successfully helped dozens of people get started in the last decade,,,
My experience certainly doesn't make me the be-all and end-all of instruction,,,
But it does give me a somewhat decent base of experience to base my judgements on.

I've not experienced much difficulty overcoming "flinch",,,
But more importantly I've not seen that starting with a .22 eliminates flinch.

It's common lore that it does,,,
But that's not been my experience.

So why go to the extra expense of a .22 pistol if it's not needed?

Just start them and train them with the pistol they are going to be using for self defense.

Aarond

.

 

[Varminterror]

After instructing new handgunners for over 20yrs, the best advice I offer to would-be first time buyers is this: “the first handgun you buy should be two handguns - the primary you want, and a target-style 22LR.”

This advice eliminates any opportunity for alibis, and promotes a sound learning environment, absent the flinch inducing stimulus of excessive recoil. I have never had a shooter who didn’t improve when using a 22LR practice pistol, and have fixed problems for many shooters who had developed recoil-anticipation issues (punching, slapping, jerking, flinching, wincing, tensing, closing eyes even...). Alternatively, I’ve seen a disproportionate segment of “primary only” shooters develop these issues, which just don’t show up in folks who use a 22 practice pistol to supplement their shooting.

For the $300 a Buckmark/Mark Series/Victory pistol can be purchased, a beginning handgunner, or even experienced shooters, will never find a better investment for their proficiency.

 

[mjsdwash]

can always sell them on the very real fact that a $400 22lr auto will be more mechanically accurate, usually have better sights, and be quieter. A Ruger MK with a good trigger, and good sights is hard to make excuses around.

 

[doubleh]

I meant with STD's.

I do have experience with developing a flinch and it is an ongoing effort to suppress it.

I meant STD's but after re-reading my post I didn't make myself clear on that. Like you, I do have flinch experience. I don't have much trouble with them anymore. Having developed a bum wrist on my shooting arm from arthritis and a tunnel thing I no longer shoot anything with much "boom".

 

[CraigC]

My problem was caused by this thing. I put the wood Hogue grips on it and proceeded to put a few hundred rounds through it to get ready for a hunt. The load was not particularly blistering, a 355gr at 1400fps but the grips made it atrocious. MaxP shot it and thought it was worse than his .500. I soldiered on, rather than giving up on the grips and it beat my thumb joint (MCP joint) to a pulp. It wasn't the gun but the grips and is the reason for my grudge against Hogue's monogrip.

 

[doubleh]

I wouldn't have attempted to shoot that thing even back before my wrist went south on me. I found the 44 mag to enough of a snootful for me although I enjoyed shooting it. It's morphed into a 44 special. I blame work and not shooting the gun for my wrist problems.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Reading the original post leads me to ask WHY is this person buying a gun?

If it's for self-defense, and self-defense only, then select a gun that is suitable for self-defense and buy a lot of ammo for practice.

If it's for plinking, general fun shooting, woods carry and so on, most people would be better served with a .22 -- with the added bonus that trigger time on a .22 carries over to improved performance with a center fire.

 

[4v50 Gary]

I always thought the 22 LR DA/SA revolver was good for training a novice. It was cheaper (back before the panic we had up until Trump was elected) to train a person with it.

 

[mgmorden]

I didn't start on a .22LR, but I sure do love one for practice. Sometimes just volume of rounds and trigger time helps, and nothing comes close to the economy of a .22 for just putting rounds downrange.

 

[peacemaker45]

IT's certainly possible to learn to shoot with a centerfire; lots of people have done so. What learning with a .22 does is to shorten the learning curve. It does so so dramatically that I'd consider it indispensable, if there's not some pressing reason to skip that step.

 

[FL-NC]

I like to train a brand new handgun shooter (after the appropriate lecture/class time, safety brief, etc.) first with my suppressed Ruger 22-45 for a FEW rounds- to get them used to the idea of squeezing a trigger and having something come out of the sharp end, with no ear pro requirement, no recoil. Then a FEW rounds with no suppressor (introducing the concept of noise) for a FEW rounds. After that, we move into either the gun they brought or a Glock 17 or 19, if either they didn't bring one, or their gun is just not appropriate (like the lady who had a jennings 25, or the other guy who only had a 38 sp derringer).