To Carry Or Not To Carry...OC/Mace

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ForeignDude

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I've been thinking about this recently, and I'd like to get your take(s) on this one.

Would you carry a canister of OC/Mace (say, about the size of a dry-erase marker or so) in addition to your pistol and re-load magazines? To give you a rough idea of what I'm thinking, this is a general set-up I have envisioned:

(right side) G19 with 15-round magazine
(left side) 15-round Glock magazine, reload
(left side) OC/Mace

What do you think? Why would you, or wouldn't you, carry OC/Mace in addition to firearm/reload mag?
 
Yes

I would carry it because a pistol is your last resort as you should already know. You can use the Mace to repel single individuals or a pair and not have to go to your weapon. Just me 2 cents
 
Depends if you don't mind carrying that much stuff. I'm a minimalist though, I have a hard time carrying my gun, cell phone, wallet, keys, and chap stick. I've been thinking about getting a survival tool and a little flashlight. Might be too much for me though, chances are they'll spend more time in my night stand than on my belt.
 
i advocate carrying a less lethal option, so i think OC is a good idea. it also works really well on aggressive dogs.

i think there are alot of times when spraying someone with OC is more effective (and more appropriate) than drawing a firearm. also since the effects are not permanent, i'd use it with much less hesitation. we all know in the back of our heads that after you pull the trigger, or display the gun in a public place, that we can be arrested and have to go through court proceedings. this is much lessened when using OC spray. most crooks aren't going to run to the cops saying they have been OC'd by someone, since the most obvious question will be, "So what happened that caused you to get sprayed?"

most people who get sprayed go from offensive to defensive quickly. i suppose that is the case then you can't see and can't breathe as easily. it usually takes the fight out of them quickly and you can use that time to defend yourself further if a threat still exists, or make your departure from the scene which puts you in a safe location.

personally i have used OC on many occasions and found it to be very useful and effective. for those of you in Austin, i have heard from many APD officers that they'd rather have you spray someone in self defense than put your hands on them. they explained it as the OC not having any permanent effects and thus no injury, so as long as it is used in self defense than there is no question in their mind as to who was the aggressor and who was defending himself. in the situation where both parties have visible injuries, the cops can't necessarily tell (without witnesses) who was in the wrong and who was just defending himself. that lays the groundwork to arrest both parties for DOC (disorderly conduct).
 
Carrying OC or some other less lethal weapon is a good idea. It gives you an intermediate step before using a firearm. If you're attacked by someone who is unarmed you can use your OC and save yourself a lot of headaches you'd have if you used a firearm. If you're 5-6 and weigh 130 and are attacked by someone the size of Hulk Hogan using the OC first will show you tried to stop him without using your gun.

Some LE agencies consider OC a "soft" technique. There are agencies that require officers or agents to carry OC and their handcuffs if they are carrying a firearm off duty.
 
YES!

I would not personally carry a reload, but do carry OC during the few times I get to CCW outside MD.

I do NOT want to end up like that guy who is in jail for shooting the crazy homeless man (crazy guy named Kunzil?) who attacked him on a hiking trail. Instead of drawing on the two big dogs or the crazy guy "defending" them, OC may have made the difference.:uhoh:
 
I carry some occasionally. The canister I got was really too big, so I need to get one I'd carry more often.

Our CHL instructor (also a SWAT/narc officer) actually encouraged it. In Arkansas, he told us, the law is so weak that by the time you are legally justified in using deadly force against an unarmed gang/mob it's really too late. Regardless of how truely you believe their threats of killing you, you could face charges or a lawsuit. OC gives you that non-lethal warning that makes you look like you were a lot less willing to fight when you're in court.

Of course, it's not a license to spray someone in the eyes and immediately start shooting. LOL
 
OC spray

I would carry a small can. However, I've found O/C to be less effective than desired. Don't put yourself at risk thinking O/C will work unless a better "stop the threat" option (firearm) can be instantly deployed.

Having O/C on your person when your gun is deployed/fired can help your defense against criminal and, or civil charges.

This shows that you were prepared for a less than lethal deployment situation, but the circumstances/fear of death or great bodily injury required you to use a firearm to stop the threat. Ie: you were not out to just shoot someone in the eyes of a jury.
 
yes a hundred times yes

I didn't carry my pepperspray and used to much force and got in trouble.
always carry less then lethal ...always!
 
I would go with a good police strength OC spray of 5% or greater. I would avoid mace products as OC is much more effective. OC spray comes in either fog or foam. Foam is intended for use in jails or prisons where air contamination is a factor. You don't have to carry an industral size can like Dog the bounty hunter but one that will give you a several good long blasts and is fairly easy to carry. If you have any questions about a product working have someone test it on you. This will give you an idea how well the OC you selected works or does not work. This should be done outdoors. Have plenty of water handy a garden hose may be your new best friend. Yes OC spray will work on dogs and snakes. I have used it several times on both and on many humans.
 
BullfrogKen (and others),
Which flashlight do you recommend? During CCW training, there was an officer on hand who let us "try" his. Don't know the brand, about the size of a magic marker, button on the base, relatively small, bright as hell that even being "sweeped" made you look away. Looked at some Surefires, but would like something a little less pricey (I think you pay a premium for the name).
Considering the "rig" consists of a G26, extra mag, and possible OC, I don't want to look like Batman when I go out.
 
They are all tools on your belt.

The Surefire 6P used to be the standard for this duty. Others have since popped up and taken their own pieces of the market. I just don't follow that market; I've had 3 lights for over a decade and don't need a 4th.

Surefire has a polymer body alternative to the 6P that costs less, but if I were to buy another light I'd get the slimmer 2 cell Executive. That will fit in a pocket, the 6P really won't (comfortably).
 
I'm torn. OC spray generally needs a demonstration to be effective; Except in the case of drug addled nutjobs or attacking foreign militaries/police, producing a gun does not.

But blasting somebody with OC in some situations may be more advisable, from a legal fallout standpoint (not to mention the racket!) than blasting them with a .45.

Consider: Nutjob jumps out at you from a dark alley, threatens to beat you up if you don't hand over your wallet. Bang. Down he goes, you have to file a police report, you go away for manslaughter because it was a public street and it turns out he was unarmed. (Or worse, you know it's a public street and shooting him is a minefield of a proposition so you don't and he beats you up or produces a knife and kills you afterwards.)

Or, you hose said nutjob down with OC, retreat, and file a police report from there. The police have an easy job of looking for the creepy guy who keeps walking into lightposts, ID him from the UV stuff in the spray, and put him away at least long enough for you to get home. If you OC'ed him and he still kept trying to kill you it'd probably make things go a little better for you if you do wind up shooting him.

Hey, I told him to eff off, he didn't stop. I hosed him down and he didn't stop. I shot him, and he did.
 
-100 on Carring OC or Pepper Spray!

Before carrying OC or Pepper Spray, check with your State Atty General's office. I did (I live in VA) and was told that I could be held criminally liable for using Pepper Spray if I had to defend myself. I was told to look into getting a concealed handgun permit.
Here's the text of their email back to me:

Dear Mr. Parmele:

I have been asked to respond to your e-mail dated December 10, 2006, and forwarded to me on December 28, 2006. You ask whether it is lawful for you to carry pepper spray upon your person without violating the laws of the Commonwealth of Virginia.

Unfortunately, our Office will not be able to provide an opinion to you in this matter. While it is the general policy of this Office to provide assistance and information to private citizens whenever possible, please understand that there is no statutory authority for this Office to provide legal advice and opinions to private individuals. Answering your question would require legal interpretation and hence, a legal opinion.

For reference only, I direct you to Virginia Code § 18.2-308(A)(v), which is the concealed weapon statute (link: http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-308). Further, I note that pepper spray has been deemed a "caustic substance" for purposes of Virginia Code § 18.2-52 (link: http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-52 ) and its use may subject the user to criminal liability (see, Corado v. Commonwealth, 47 Va. App. 315, 334-337 (2005)). However, should self-protection be your concern, Virginia does grant concealed handgun permits to both residents and non-residents. For details, I direct your attention to the Virginia State Police website located at http://www.vsp.state.va.us/cjis_ftc.htm.

While I understand that this may not be the response that you sought, I hope that you understand our legal limitations in assisting you further. It is recommended that you consult a private attorney regarding the specifics of your situation and a more thorough evaluation of your factually driven question. Thank you for your correspondence.

Sincerely,

James E. Schliessmann
Assistant Attorney General

It's good to know that VA pushes their Concealed Carry permit. However, this is simply amazing and opened my eyes.
 
Of course you can be held criminally liable. You can be held liable if you simply push an assailant off of you. Ever heard the line "You can be sued for anything." ?? Believe it.

That being said, on and off duty I always carry OC. With proper training and use, it is a very effective defensive tool in the use of force ladder.

Just as you would not shoot someone unless absolutely necessary and they posed an eminent threat to your safety, you should use the same caution on spraying someone.

For those who don't feel that OC is a good tool, keep in mind that many times over the courts have deemed that if a Police Officer has been sprayed, he can use deadly force on the person. This also holds true for individuals as well. I haven't read the case law in a while...but thats how its read for a long time...
 
Just my 2 cents, but just finished a CCW course and the instructor was against carrying any kind of pepper spray. He cited a case in which it was used on a person with asthma and the individual died. You will then have to fight off murder charges.

The logic is if you are going to need force to stop a threat, use your gun. If you have the chance of facing the same concequences, makes sense to me :uhoh:
 
After consideration, I won't carry the stuff. Respect it, yes, but not for me personally.

My take is the most likely incident will involve dogs, and a blast of noxious fumes having an area of effect may end up harming my quasi-asthmatic dog. This would not only likely end my beloved dog's life, but my better half may very well do the same to me.

That aside, I just can't bet my life on a condiment. Pepper spray chicken wings, anyone?

I carry an ASP baton instead.

That said, if pepper spray matches your needs, go for it.
 
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