To conceal or not to conceal? That is a good question

[jcwit]

That 'thing' did not detect your handgun; it detected an RFID tag that was attached to something on you. Stores put RFID tags in items so that if you walk out the door without paying the alarm goes off. Sometimes they don’t get erased and will set off the sensor in a different store.

Being as you were not present its obvious you have no idea. I was entering to go shopping and had not been shopping at any other store. I seriously doubt my clothing which was over a year old had any RFID tags on them as its never happened again. Who knows maybe my Obama money set it off.

You alarmed her by telling her something she didn’t need to know. If you’re going to carry concealed, why are you telling people about it?

I answered her question when confronted by her upon entering. Was in a state of surprise and obviously didn't think fast enough to please you, sorry. You have no idea what you would have done in similar circumstances either. Course you can say you would know but that is truly hypothetical.

 

[Sam1911]

He reassured me that he knew I was within my rights and he wasn't bothered by it; said just wanted to make sure that if I was going to try on a holster or something I'd need to check my gun up front. I don't believe for a moment that was really why he came over - I'm sure a customer said something and he felt compelled to check on me.

I wouldn't doubt his reasoning. Folks bringing guns in to a store to try our holsters, grips, discuss a trade, get gunsmithing done, etc., SHOULD be clearing them before they come into the store (actually, should be clearing them at HOME before they head out) and Cabelas and some other places have very good policies on how to do that. I'm sure he's seen folks whip out loaded guns to check out a new holster before, and that's not cool. I'd give even odds he was just trying to head off that potential issue in a friendly way -- not every "gun guy" has 1/4 the gun smarts he should and/or practices best safety standards.

In a good store manager's view, giving you a little heads-up early might save having to ask you to leave later for flagging another customer.

 

[NavyLCDR]

For one it is tactfully unsound. Criminal with gun will see Joe with gun and shoot him first. Deal with the largest threat then go after sheeple. A remote possability, yes. But still something we all consider in the back of our minds, otherwise we wouldn't carry.

You state things as fact, which are only unproven theories. Since you state it as fact, I offer you the same challenge I offered in post #21, please provide us with a real world example where "it is tactfully unsound. Criminal with gun will see Joe with gun and shoot him first." For years people have been saying this, for years the challenge has been out there to provide examples, and for years nobody has been ever been able to produce more than the same couple of, rather dubious, examples of it ever happening in real life.

I don't care how anyone else legally carries their gun, if they carry it with a round in the chamber or not, or even if they carry a gun at all. But I don't think it is right to attempt to pass off unproven theories as fact, especially if they are going to choose a method of carry based upon that information.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Freak outs happen. Just recently my nearest Wal-Mart had an incident. Guy buys a GLOCK from a LGS. Wife goes into Wal-Mart. Guy stays in vehicle and proceeds to "check out" his new gun. We've all done it I suspect. Some anti gun person freaks out and calls the cops and says there is a guy pointing a gun at the door to Wal-Mart. Cops inquire. Guy explains. No problem. Gun was unloaded. Incidents like this will always happen.

Some people just see a gun and lose it regardless of the situation. I see open carry quite a bit, and since we love our guns here, everyone looks at a gun on a hip intently. We just want to know what make, model, and caliber is all. I suspect there are on order of 3 to 4 times the number of guns in my town as there are people.

For one it is tactfully unsound. Criminal with gun will see Joe with gun and shoot him first. Deal with the largest threat then go after sheeple.

Could we as a gun community stop using the term sheeple please? It is just as insulting and inappropriate to call someone who chooses to not exercise their right to carry a sheeple, as it is for them to call us gun nuts, red necks, or any other degrading names that antis choose to label us with. All it does is foster a hostile interaction. I don't disagree with the sentiment, or the point the term makes, but as a straight man, I don't walk around calling gay men fruits either. It is inappropriate to label someone in a degrading way because of a choice they have made. You may not agree with that choice, and I personally disagree with a lot of choices people make, but calling them names for that is childish.

 

[md2lgyk]

My local WalMart has a scanner at the entrance. It is NOT a metal detector and will not detect my CCW. If it were a metal detector, it would go off every time somebody came through pushing a cart, carrying a bunch of keys, or had a huge belt buckle. Home Depot has scanners as well, and aren't metal detectors either.

In spite of what the OP has said, I'm sure it was an RFID tag that set the detector off. Maybe on someone entering at the same time. They're not just on clothing, they're everywhere. I've seen them on items costing less than $5.

 

[mljdeckard]

Like I say, I am always amused when people who live where OC isn't allowed come up with all kinds of reasons it is a bad idea. NO ONE can come up with an example of when anyone was attacked BECAUSE they were open-carrying. They state it like it is a fact, when the truth is it's a remote possibility. The assertion that criminals are drawn to someone with a gun defies logic. It is at least as likely they will see someone with a gun and change their plans.

Places like walmart put RFID tags in things that are highly pilferable. That is where most of their shink comes from, things that are easily slipped into pockets. these things aren't necessarily expensive, just easy to steal. I think pretty much all of the DVDs I have bought from there have had RFID tags.

 

[Creature]

Whether you win your little "I have more stories to the contrary" contest or not, I have determined that for me, concealed carry is preferable. One story of a person specifically targeted and killed while open carrying is enough reason for me to prefer to carry concealed.

http://www.timesdispatch.com/news/t...cle_970e24e7-dd5d-57e7-8fb8-a64a0a2b26ba.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=zx_YUO4SzcY

 

[mljdeckard]

Preferable is one thing. More or less likely is another thing entirely.

 

[Creature]

Okay....

 

[Certaindeaf]

Like I say, I am always amused when people who live where OC isn't allowed come up with all kinds of reasons it is a bad idea. NO ONE can come up with an example of when anyone was attacked BECAUSE they were open-carrying. They state it like it is a fact, when the truth is it's a remote possibility. The assertion that criminals are drawn to someone with a gun defies logic. It is at least as likely they will see someone with a gun and change their plans.

Places like walmart put RFID tags in things that are highly pilferable. That is where most of their shink comes from, things that are easily slipped into pockets. these things aren't necessarily expensive, just easy to steal. I think pretty much all of the DVDs I have bought from there have had RFID tags.

No one? feh
Here's one where a gentleman here got his ass handed to him recently. I'm sure there are many more across the lands and it's one thing that a man might not even/ever recount as I'm sure it's quite humiliating.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=687288

Oh edit. I see you replied to that thread back in the day so you've either got a bad memory, are a fisherman/tall tale teller and or a liar.

 

[mljdeckard]

I'm a liar?

 

[Certaindeaf]

I'm a liar?

You said "NO ONE (your embelishment) can come up with an example..".
As you can see, as I said, you responded to a thread directly involving said subject.

 

[mljdeckard]

One might say I spoke in a hyperbolic way. One cannot say I spoke dishonestly in a way intended to willfully deceive.

I'm not even going to go back and look at an old thread to see what was discussed. Any number of bad things might happen to people. This does not indicate in any way that open carrying is more likely to make you the target of a crime than to deter a crime.

 

[mljdeckard]

In any event, to call someone a liar on the internet is to insult them and question their honor and integrity. I never speak in a way online I wouldn't speak to someone face to face.

 

[Creature]

I provided two examples. But I am sure you will dismiss them as anecdotal...

 

[Certaindeaf]

An invisible gun can't/won't be snatched.. pretty much. Most all guns are snatched from open carry, even (mostly?) from cops. Why do you think they all wear high retention holsters?

 

[Mainsail]

Please post even one time a cop’s gun was snatched merely because he was carrying openly, and not because he was in the process of arresting someone. No cop has ever been targeted simply because some criminal took a liking to his sidearm. Cops are often the victim of grabs and grab attempts only because they are grappling with a suspect who would rather not go to jail.

Back to the real topic….

Every time this subject is debated the anti-gun folks in here try to trot out the same nonsense, gun grabs, panicked soccer moms, first targeted, etc., and every time they fail to come up with any coherent logic that says it’s even a possibility, much less any evidence it happens.

Carry the way you want, and the way you’re most comfortable carrying. Don’t use illogic to cover for your emotional fear of visible firearms; not all of us share that. It doesn’t go unnoticed that those of us that actually open carry are completely supportive of concealed carry- we’re just happy that we have the rights that we do. If you’re uncomfortable or frightened to carry openly, then just admit it; there’s no shame in it. But please don’t try to hide behind the same failed arguments that have already been proven to be baseless.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Please post even one time a cop’s gun was snatched merely because he was carrying openly, and not because he was in the process of arresting someone. No cop has ever been targeted simply because some criminal took a liking to his sidearm. Cops are often the victim of grabs and grab attempts only because they are grappling with a suspect who would rather not go to jail..

Of course there's going to be a struggle and who wants to go to jail? and lots of crazies want a gun, perhaps to kill that cop or whomever with?

Why don't you do your own google search.. perhaps type in cop "killed with own gun". you can do it

 

[Mainsail]

Here in No. Indiana all WalMarts have some kind of scanner that can P/U whatever, in that particular it P/U'd up my concealed handgun.

The scanners that WalMart look very similar to the ones the court house uses but not sure because it very seldom I enter a courthouse.

Sorry, but you are wrong.

Walmart does not have a secret high-tech handgun detector at their stores- any of them. The courthouse is using a metal detector; it detects the presence of metal. As already mentioned, walmart cannot put a metal detector at their entrances because shopping carts, keys, etc. would be setting it off every few seconds.

The greeter had no idea that you had a concealed handgun until you told her (unless you were seriously printing).

Read up on how RFID works. It doesn’t matter if you haven’t shopped in months, or ever shopped at all.

 

[mljdeckard]

And I have seen people OC-ing at my local Walmart in tooele and West Valley City more than once, most people don't even notice.

 

[mljdeckard]

Just because you don't feel like it is best for YOUR area and YOUR circumstances and YOUR level of comfort doesn't mean you can say it's a bad idea for anyone else.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Of course there's going to be a struggle and who wants to go to jail? and lots of crazies want a gun, perhaps to kill that cop or whomever with?

Why don't you do your own google search.. perhaps type in cop "killed with own gun". you can do it

You are the only one in this thread talking about cops being killed with their own guns. Entirely different circumstances driven by entirely different motivations than Joe Citizen carrying a gun in Wal Mart.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Here are some published facts, with references:

http://www.gunfacts.info/pdfs/gun-facts/6.2/gun-facts-6-2-screen.pdf

Printed pages 29-30:

60% of convicted felons admitted that they avoided committing crimes when they knew the victim was armed. 40% of convicted felons admitted that they avoided committing crimes when they thought the victim might be armed.

Felons report that they avoid entering houses where people are at home because they fear being shot.

74% of felons agreed that, "one reason burglars avoid houses when people are at home is that they fear being shot during the crime."

57% of felons polled agreed, "criminals are more worried about meeting an armed victim than they are about running into the police."

90% of all violent crimes in the U.S. do not involve firearms of any type.

Even though most of those facts are from 1986, so far we only have three examples of Joe Citizen open carrying being attacked, and in one of those (the armed robbery in Wisconsin I think was the state) there is no indication whatsoever that the visible presence of the firearm was a factor at all. The fact that we only have three examples seems to indicate that criminals' thoughts about attacking citizens who are known to be armed hasn't changed all that much over the years - they are still afraid of getting shot. They simply have no reason to bother with Joe Citizen who they can see has a gun because they have the rest of the 99.5% of the population left to pick as targets who aren't visibly carrying a gun.

There is a whole world of difference between risking getting charged with/convicted of robbery or armed robbery to snatch someone's wallet and watch and getting charged with/convicted of murder or attempted murder over a wallet and watch. Criminals understand this.

One person says just one person getting shot because of their visible gun is enough reason to carry concealed. I say that just one criminal who bypasses me as a target and moves on is reason enough for me to open carry. And the odds are greater the criminal will just move on.

We can present theories all day long....I just feel that real world facts should be presented along with the theories so people can make real informed decisions rather than going with someone elses opinion.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

This could go on forever. I think there are a few things to consider when making the decision.

Consider your setting.
Consider how receptive the people in your community are to OC.
Consider if you care.
Consider the likely response if police are called, even if you are within your rights.
Consider whether or not you are willing to endure the delay of your day and general pain in the butt if someone does flip out over seeing a gun.

Ultimately, do what works for you. It is a personal choice. All the stories from word of mouth and newspapers mean nothing, since we are all living in different places, and every "example" of one carry method being supperior or inferrior is moot. Given the exact same circumstances, the outcome could be different for different people based on their rections, behavior, level of calmness, and a host of different things. I'm not saying we shouldn't consider and learn from others, but going up and back will not change anyone's mind nor result in a definative answer as to which is a better carry option.

 

[Teachu2]

Not an issue around here - OC isn't allowed.