To firmly plant or no...

[SilentStalker]

Ok, so when shooting any type of rifle, do you guys firmly plant the buttstock in your shoulder, like pulling back onto it into your shoulder or no? The reason I ask is because I take my stance, put the rifle to my shoulder and balance it when taking the shot. I do not pull it back into my shoulder. However, I was told what I was doing was wrong LOL, even though I was easily hitting 8"X8" targets at 60 yards with iron sights on a SBR AR. So, I ask what is the correct way? I also cannot stand squared off to my target like so many teach these days...

 

[rcmodel]

If you don't pull it back into your shoulder?
You are going to take a real beating with any hard kicking firearm!!

Since an AR doesn't kick, you just haven't noticed it yet.

rc

 

[SilentStalker]

Ok, so in other words all of this time I have been shooting incorrectly I guess. I mean how hard should I be planting it in my shoulder is the question...I guess I will just have to figure that out as I go along. And you are right, AR's do not kick at all so I never noticed...

 

[CmpsdNoMore]

Yeah, it's best to have it firmly in the "pocket". Try shooting a shotgun or milsup with a metal butt plate, they'll teach you how to shoulder it correctly!

 

[taliv]

so "correct" has changed a lot over the past 100 years. I happen to think what is commonly taught in carbine classes today is better, not just different.

so yes, i shoot squared up, shortened stock, stock inboard instead of out in the shoulder pocket and pulled into the chest.

if i'm just shooting for groups, no i wouldn't shoot that way. i'd use a traditional high power stance. but in high power, you can only single load and you have to wait for a target puller to pull and mark your target. if you had to present the rifle and shoot quickly, or while moving, or had to take multiple shots (controlled pairs, hammers) in less than a second, you will find some shortcomings in that position.

 

[Cosmoline]

It should be firm enough in the pocket to keep ti anchored. The competition shooters really wedge it in there. But heck the tactical shooters are moving away from that whole bladed target stance for AR's anyway. So maybe it doesn't really matter that much. I'd suggest you give it a try along with a traditional sling and see how your groups are.

 

[Sam1911]

Whether you're shooting in the old traditional "rifleman" stance, or in the more dynamic squared up position, you do need that buttplate pretty firmly against your shoulder. Giving it room to move isn't conducive to good control or quick shot recovery -and as other said, with a more powerful firearm it's going to get you hurt.

This gets a little muddy in the stance used by competitive highpower/CMP marksmen shooting the AR-15 as they generally have a very high position for the butt against the shoulder:

http://www272.pair.com/stevewag/matches/highpower/offhand.jpg"]http://www272.pair.com/stevewag/matches/highpower/offhand.jpg

But it is still very much solid against the shoulder in a perfectly repeatable location.

 

[adelbridge]

you want it planted firmly in the same spot every time and you want your check welded in the same spot every time. perfect form reduces parallax problems with scoped shooting.

 

[MilsurpShooter]

It took me one pull of the trigger to realize I was doing it wrong. Went from .22's to a Yugo M48a in 8mm Mauser. Pulled the trigger the first time and saw stars. Learned real quick on that lesson.

Sometimes I forget. My Mosin, Mauser, or 338 Lapua will quickly give me a re-education course without a problem at all. It's not a matter of bad form, it's a matter of liking a black and blue shoulder or not.

 

[Red Tornado]

You normally want to leave about a 2" gap between the buttstock and your shoulder. Especially with full power cartridges or shotguns. If using a 12 gauge shotgun allow about 3" to make sure you have plenty of room.
RT

 

[Freedom_fighter_in_IL]

LMAO@ Red Tornado

 

[gp911]

Just thought I should mention that squared-up, elbow-down stance frequently used with ARs does not work for straight-stocked rifles. I've watched several folks at the range try it and they either end up standing there all bewildered or they get walloped by the gun until somebody offers assistance. It works well for ARs because of the pistol grip & collapsible stock and it also keeps body armor square to the enemy, but try it with a Mosin and you'll quickly see what I'm talking about.

 

[taliv]

heh, i don't think anyone would suggest doing that with a mosin (at least i sure hope not... you'd need forearms like popeye)

 

[snakeman]

I am a firm believer in snuggling up to a firearms. Yes, I said snuggle!

 

[JohnBT]

"like pulling back onto it into your shoulder"

Sort of. I was taught to hold the gun firmly and lean into it. It's a matter of balance. When I was little I'd try to stand up straight and pull the butt to my shoulder - the larger guns would knock me back a half a step off balance.

Remember, if you don't hold the gun firmly to your shoulder you're giving it a running start before it hits you.

When I was a kid it seemed like everybody wanted to talk me into leaning my shoulder back against a tree and shoot "with support". Most folks only fell for it once.

John

 

[Coltdriver]

I tuck the rifle in firmly and I have learned to use my left hand to pull the fore end back and do most of the pulling back from the fore end. Some pull with their trigger hand. I also push my shoulder into the butt stock a bit.

Besides controlling the rifle the number one reason I can think of doing this is that a high powered rifle will jump enough to give you the scope crescent cut above your eyebrow if you do not control it. Some scopes don't have enough eye relief and they are prone to biting you.

Some just kick the crap out of you and you can reduce that punch by cinching up on it a bit from the beginning. Try a medium heavy load in a 45 70 or other mule kicking round and you will see what I'm talking about.

 

[M1key]

Firmly plant and use left hand to stabilize...especially with heavier recoiling rifles.

M

 

[Rail Driver]

For me it depends on what I'm shooting, why I'm shooting, and how I'm shooting.

With my AR, shooting for practice or training, much of my shooting is done squared to the target, with the buttstock tucked against my chest sort of hunched into the rifle so that my right eye is naturally aligned with the axis of the bore making the transition from ready to fire quicker. This stance also aids in a steadier platform to shoot from and faster follow up shots, especially when using a sling properly for support.

With my Mosin/Nagant M44, I have to admit to shooting with a less squared stance, with the butt more firmly in the pocket of my shoulder. That thing kicks like an angry horse, and I'd not want to give it a "running start" into my shoulder. If you shoot a Mosin/Nagant prone, make sure that buttplate is supported by something other than your collarbone. A good friend of mine broke his when shooting a Mosin/Nagant.

Shotguns get a sort of "hybrid" between the stance I use for my AR and the stance for my Mosin. More squared off, but still in the pocket of my shoulder. Harder to avoid the chicken wing, but still provides ample support and padding.

 

[MachIVshooter]

If you don't pull it back into your shoulder?
You are going to take a real beating with any hard kicking firearm!!

^^^^
This, which has been reiterated.

I can't imagine puling the trigger on my .375 RUM without having it pulled in tight. Hurts just thinking about it!

SilentStalker-

An AR will hit you with all of about 8 ft/lbs of recoil @ ~13-14 FPS, further dampened by the action and buffer. A .30-06 can come back with 25 ft/lbs @ 20-22 FPS in a sporting weight rifle. Some of the big boomers (like my .375) can hit you with more than 80 ft/lbs and have free recoil velocities of 25+ FPS. They will break your collar bone and bloody your eyebrow if held incorrectly.

 

[bluethunder1962]

This may sound stupid but with my AR I put the bottom corner of the but on top of sholder so I can get my eye closer to the sight(old age). I know I could get a diff. stock but works for me.

 

[gp911]

The chicken wing is not detrimental when firing a straight stocked, heavy-recoiling weapon, it is actually beneficial because it presents the proverbial "pocket" that the buttstock should be placed in.

 

[allaroundhunter]

It needs to be pulled in tight enough to retain control and keep from beating your shoulder, but not so tight that your body is tense.

If your body is tense it will cause an inaccurate shot....if the rifle is not tight enough against your shoulder (when shooting a higher caliber), it will cause you to look like that smiley face in post #11...

 

[arizona98tj]

For those that have been to an Appleseed shoot and received the packet with various pages of info in it.....there is one titled "Common Firing Line Errors".

#2 on that page of 12 errors is "Failure to pull rifle back into shoulder".

 

[henschman]

I always use some method of keeping the stock firmly in the shoulder pocket. If I'm shooting with a sling, the sling pressure keeps it there. If I have a bipod or other front rest, I like to wedge my hand or a rear bag or something under the stock to keep it in my shoulder. If I'm shooting leaned up against a tree or something, I lean my weight forward a little to keep it in there. When I'm shooting unsupported, I have to use my muscles to pull it back into the pocket. This is the least ideal for precision, but definitely the most dynamic if you're in a "shoot and scoot" type of situation, or if you have to get a quick shot off. When doing this, I use a "handshake-firm" pressure... not the bone crusher handshake you would give your daughter's boyfriend, but not a little-old-lady handshake either... basically enough muscle to keep the rifle from moving or falling out of your shoulder, but not so much to cause muscle shake.

so "correct" has changed a lot over the past 100 years. I happen to think what is commonly taught in carbine classes today is better, not just different.

so yes, i shoot squared up, shortened stock, stock inboard instead of out in the shoulder pocket and pulled into the chest.

if i'm just shooting for groups, no i wouldn't shoot that way. i'd use a traditional high power stance. but in high power, you can only single load and you have to wait for a target puller to pull and mark your target.

Which position is "correct" or "better" is a matter of tactics, and the situation dictates the tactics. The method you describe is better for one specific situation (close quarter dynamic shooting) and one specific type of rifle (low recoiling intermediate power rifles). If you try to put the stock "inboard" on your pectoral muscle with a high powered rifle, it will not be pleasant. When using a .30 battle rifle or something for close quarters, you can still use a far-forward grip with your support hand; but it is best to use your actual shoulder pocket, and to take a slightly less squared stance.

Also, the traditional "bladed" stance is not just for punching paper or high power matches where you are single loading... it is the position you would use any time you need to get the utmost precision out of the standing position. It is what a sniper would use when standing back in the shadows of a room shooting down through a window, or what a hunter would use if he had to take a long-range shot but could not get in a more stable position due to obstructions. It can be REALLY stable when augmented with a tree, corner, door frame, or other solid support.

I've long said that a real Rifleman ought to know both the dynamic and the precision techniques, and should be able to switch seamlessly between them as the situation dictates.

 

[Driftertank]

I find that holding pressure on the rifle using the forearm allows to keep my trigger hand relaxed and enhances trigger discipline, also