To Help A Friend Or Not, Decisions-Decisions

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Ala Dan

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Greeting's All-

Just a hypotheical situation, but if you had a very dear (life long) friend
that needed protection; and only YOU could provide the protection that
was necessary in allowing this person to use your most prized handgun
to defend life, limb, and property; what would it be? Buying this person
a firearm IS NOT an option, as it would constitute a "straw purchase".
The questions here are, a) do you think enough of this person to lend
them YOUR most prized handgun and b) what handgun would it be.

FWIW, your friend is a law abiding citizen and has NO criminal record.
But, you MUST help he/she out as they are in one of America's most
dangerous cities; where the possibility of getting mugged or killed is
very high. Only YOU can help~!:uhoh: :eek: Lets assume this person
has very little, or NO handgun experience.

I will kick the decision making off, as YES I would have too help by
coughing up my much beloved West German .45 caliber SIG-SAUER
P220A; as its easy to manipulate, has good sights, adequate firepower,
and known for its reliability~!:cool: :D
 
Yes and no. Yes, I'd help a friend out, but not with my most prized handgun. Not because it's my "most prized"; rather, because I think one of my others would make more sense for someone who doesn't have a lot of handgun experience. None of my firearms is so dear to me that I wouldn't give it up under the right circumstances. But I'd think a utilitarian .357 mag revolver would make more sense in the situation you describe than a high-end semi auto.
 
Yes and no, yes I would help them but no I would not give them my most prized handgun. With the experience level you indicate they get a 38 revolver, period.
 
I think I'm misunderstanding...

It's legal to buy a gun and give it to someone as a gift, as long as they are not prohibited from buying guns. And if they are prohibited from buying a gun, they are probably also prohibited from possessing one.

I'm not going to give someone one of my guns if it is illegal for them to possess it. They are better off leaving the danger zone. If they choose to remain in the danger zone, I'm no longer responsible for their safety.

Give a gift, or not give at all is my vote.
 
In the situation you describe I agree that a ulitarian .357 or .38 mid frame would be the choice handgun to provide. However, other questions need to be considered. In the situation as described it seems that it is possible that the weapon may be used to defend the friend and his family. One must consider whether his "ownership" / "possession" of the weapon would be legal. If not one may be setting oneself up for a felony firearms conviction of some sort for providing the weapon to him. If that is true you would then be risking the deprivation of yourself or your family to be defended. In that case I would have to chose my family over my friend.
 
no question about it i would , but im not sure what gun is my most prized? maybe my 4 inch 629 no dash, or one of my 27-2s,or my 4 inch nickel 29-2 well it doesnt matter , yes he or she could get any of them, csa:)
 
But I'd think a utilitarian .357 mag revolver would make more sense in the situation you describe than a high-end semi auto.
Click to expand...

Bingo. If i were to do this for a friend, then yes, one of my lesser valued guns should do the trick for him or her just as well as my highest. Add to that thought that if said friend were ever to have to use the thing in a SD situation, it is almost certainly going to get confiscated by the LEO's who respond, maybe never to be seen again.

I think my state laws regarding handguns could probably bite me on the hind-quarters in a situation like this, and i would not do it lightly. In fact i have refused a similar request in the past because of the personal liability issues alone, to say nothing of the draconian state laws here in NJ regarding handguns. In that particular case, i believed my friend to be much more likely to use the gun than not, and that thought did not give me any comfort.

However, setting aside any potential legal consequences that may arise for me for having given him the gun in the first place, i would not want one of my most highly prized handguns to disappear into the police system, possibly never to be seen again.
 
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If I understand what you're describing, there is no specific threat, just the crime statistics for the city. And the person has no handgun experience.

Then, no.
 
I'm a fairly generous guy, but I have a personal mantra; two things I don't like to "loan" or help anybody out on.... firearms and condoms. I strongly feel that everybody should take care of themselves on those two counts.

That being said.... there are probably only 1 or 2 friends I would even consider doing that for as described. And it would definitely be for the short-term, because I would be on their case like EVERY SINGLE DAY to get their own... IF I even agreed, which is not nearly as likely over "tough city stats" as a direct and real threat, as has been addressed.


[EDIT: I'm just not feeling letting somebody mess around and leave my gun somewhere, getting it stolen or getting us both in Big Trouble™ because he didn't have the foresight and motivation to get his own... good friend or no. Sorry.]
 
Since I have about 75 percent of Glocks lineup.excluding .357 SIG and .45 GAP and the long slides.I'd offer him whichever he wanted.
 
If this hypothetical person does not already have a firearm, REFUSES to spend $200-350 on a weapon, and REFUSES to leave a firearm hostile, dangerous city, I certainly will not PUSH one into his/her hands.

That person is stuck in white, and trying to push someone like that does no good at all.

Maybe he'll wise up after he survives an assault, or maybe the next one.... maybe.

--Travis--
 
The burned hand teaches best

Having been burned, I will never "loan" out a handgun again, and I will think long and hard over a rifle or shotgun.

A long time friend (former best friend) asked for the loan of a hundgun (for pretection). I had known this idividual almost 30 years (we met in the Army), although had not seen hin for about half a dozen. We used to shoot and collect guns together.

He fell on hard times, lost his job, and later his wife. His collection went away. He moved out of state to look for work. After half a dozen years he came back to my area, and after reaquainting ourselves, he asked to borrow a gun. He wanted my Model 28, but knew not to ask. I loaned him a GI 1911. A 1943 Remington Rand. I knew he knew how to use it correctly.

What I didn't know was that he had forgotten how to secure it properly. About a month later it was stolen, by the 16 year old daughter of his neighbor. He called the cops, and me, when he noticed it missing.

Turns out the cops had recovered it the night before, along with the girl, in the company of an illegal alien. At this point thing get wierd. His story to me, and his story to the cops don't match. Her story was he loaned her the gun to scare off a potential rapist. His story is she stole the gun. Her parents thrreatened to sccuse him of molesting her if he told the cops she stole it, etc....it is an ugly mess.

Anyway, he left the area again shortly afterward, to look for work, leaving me holding the bag for money loaned him, a car, and one of my collector handguns. He is no longer my friend. And he owes me!

The cops (prosecutor) hold the gun yet, and it has been a few years. First they were going to charge the illegal alien, but they dropped that. Then they were going to charge the girl with minor in posession of handgun. The girl never showed up for her arraignment. So they are holding the gun as evidence, until they find her, and then they will make up their mind if they are going to charge her. I have a small possiblity of being able to claim my gun, after the statute of limitations expires on the charges.

Also, I was informed that if anyone had been harmed by my gun, I could be held liable. The lesson here is,

If you loan someone a gun, you could be liable. Expect never to see the gun again. If you want to help them, either sell, or give them the gun, if legal, and have a bill of sale to proove it.
 
So here's another question. Ala Dan's initial post seemed to emphasize whether or not we'd be willing to give up one of our prized handguns. Let me put the emphasis elsewhere.

In NY State, it is illegal to be in possession of a handgun without a permit that has that same gun listed on it (de facto registration). In PA, it is not legal to transfer ownership of a handgun without an FFL intermediary, who does the paperwork on the transaction. Thusly, in NY, what Ala Dan is proposing would be illegal. How about in PA? Can I loan a gun to someone who could legally own one but doesn't? It would not be legal to "give" a handgun to that same person, but how about loaning it for a day or two ... or a week or two?

I assume in many states there are no restrictions on the private transfer of handguns, so the question in such states would be moot.
 
Just a hypotheical situation, but if you had a very dear (life long) friend
that needed protection; and only YOU could provide the protection that
was necessary in allowing this person to use your most prized handgun
to defend life, limb, and property;
Click to expand...

No. Absolutely not. I don't lend out my car either. I do, however, have a guest bedroom, and persons in danger are welcome to come stay at my house. I tell all my guests that if they are safe nowhere else on earth, they are safe in my house. Hell bars the door. I am willing to shelter people, but I am not willing to arm people.

Of course, all of my friends are already armed, so I guess the discussion is kind of moot for me...

Nio
 
In NY State, it is illegal to be in possession of a handgun without a permit that has that same gun listed on it (de facto registration). In PA, it is not legal to transfer ownership of a handgun without an FFL intermediary, who does the paperwork on the transaction. Thusly, in NY, what Ala Dan is proposing would be illegal. How about in PA? Can I loan a gun to someone who could legally own one but doesn't? It would not be legal to "give" a handgun to that same person, but how about loaning it for a day or two ... or a week or two?
Click to expand...


Good question. Anybody know the answer for NC, by chance?

I'm thinking there wouldn't be that much trouble involved for "loaning" in and of itself.... it's just that once somebody actually gets shot with it, you've got a royal mess.


The piece also could get confiscated in a lesser situation (unlawfully concealed, etc.) with nary a word the actual owner could say, I'd imagine.
 
Nope, wouldn't do it. Says nothing about my level of friendship...I've fixed flats for nieghbors at 3'oclock in the morning -- people I hardly knew. Nope, it's all about that evil word LIABILITY.

I'm not even so concerned about the criminal proceedings, it's civil judgements that worry me. The standards of proof are much different for a civil proceeding and in the end, I'd probably wished I went to jail rather than pay some $x-million judgement.

Now, if I had room, that friend could stay with me. I wouldn't mind staying with him if it wasn't a hassle. I'd suggest a dog, alarm system, or some form of detterent. But it's just too much of a risk to help out a friend in that regard.
 
I don't use the word friend lightly.

I have four close friends.

If one showed up at the door in the morning and said, I need *** gun, the only thing I would ask is how much ammo do you want and do you need any help.
 
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FWIW, your friend is a law abiding citizen and has NO criminal record
soo.... why cant he purchase one himself with your assistance in make and model and usefullness??
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Yes, I would and have.
My Aunt was having problems with breakins at her house, She called the cops and me.
I would go armed down to her house(1/4 mile across a field)looking for said creep,and sit with her for the hour or so till the popo showed up.
I lent her my Dan Wesson 357 for 3-4 weeks till we could find a gun for her.
The police didn't like the idea of her having a gun,But they couldn't stop me from "storing"it at her house.
 
I don't think it would be a straw purchase, ole bud. The way I understand a straw purchase is buying a gun and giving it to someone who cannot own a gun for legal reasons, like felony conviction, or others listed on ATF form.

You could gift a person with no criminal record a gun - my view is that a person who will not think to defend themselves will not defend themselves with YOUR property. Therefore, I would not gift them or lend them any of my firearms.

*Someone near and dear to me* is such a person - she would not drop the hammer on somebody because that thought just doesn't enter her head. She would just cower, like lots of folks do.

So, you'll have to make your own decision here, my friend. A person without a lot of gun background would be best served with a S&W Model 10 type 38 Special. Point and click and the job is done. Nothing else to buy. :)
 
Lets just assume that for finanical difficulties this person cannot afford
to purchase a firearm. He/she must decide between buying some
grocery's; or purchasing a firearm to protect themselves~
Click to expand...

Buy them a gun (or send them one of yours)...but have it transferred to their local FFL and let them do the paperwork on it. If they can legally own, this should be the best way (for all parties involved).

No way I'd leave a 'loose end' floating around like that - if it gets stolen or used in a crime it's going to come back at you.
 
"Lets just assume that for finanical difficulties this person cannot afford
to purchase a firearm. He/she must decide between buying some
grocery's; or purchasing a firearm to protect themselves~! "

That is a whole different kettle of fish.
I would lend them a handgun, BUT only if they were capable of practice, and did . This would, of course, be contingent upon them being able to own and practice with it legaly. I would not just lend a handgun to someone that felt they needed it, if I did not feel they could and would use it responsibly, and IMO that means they have to practice with it more than once a year.
 
This question is flawed, bigtime!

Where I live, it is ilegal to "loan out" a handgun... (We have "registration" here...

So, to make the scenario work, I have to be actually GIVING them a gun, on a permanent "registration"...

My most prized handgun? (family heirloom) I doubt a beat-up, clapped-out used up Hi-Standard Double-Nine is really much help...

They get my Smitty 637-2 is theirs as soon as they produce a purchase permit... no question about it...


This question is flawed, as it assumes that the person annswering only owns one "defense" weapon, and secondly that that weapon is the "most prized"... I suspect that there are ALOT of people who own more that 1 defense weapon, and who prize an heirloom, or showpiece over the utilitarian defense unit!
 
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