To or not to convert a 3 screw Super Blackhawk

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CraigC said:
Yeah, how many traditional single actions in your stable? My advice is to fix the REAL problem through education, not put a gimmick bandaid fix on it in the form of a transfer bar conversion.
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None anymore. Had a Three Screw myself back in the early seventies. Traded it for a SxS grouse gun. Nuttin' to do with the safety of it, just didn't like the way it beat up my hand. Wished I still had it, very much doubt I woulda done the conversion if I did. Folks are responsible for their own actions. What you or I would do is not always what is right for others, regardless of how strongly we feel about it. Many folks with traditional SAs will go their whole life without an ND. But, there is no denying that they are a different animal and have an inherent susceptibility to NDs similar to other firearms that have to be uncocked while loaded to make them safe. I have old lever action carbines, model 97 Winchesters and several SxS shotties with outside hammers. Never had a AD with any of them, but know plenty that have. While I feel safe using them the way they are, I do not feel that all folks can. I assume the reason they now put additional safeties on modern lever actions is because of just this very thing. But just cause I feel confident with older levers don't mean I recommend everyone use 'em. Just cause I can use 'em safely don't mean I'll hand 'em to my grandkids to use. I've got much safer firearms for small hands. I'm also responsible for the consequences.
 
I have one of the original single six's and it has not gone back. It shoots very nice and I see no reason to take a chance of messing things up. I have had the gun for 40+ years and have not shot myself.
 
Too bad they didn't make the Single Ten as an old model.
Even with an empty chamber under the hammer, you still have 9 rounds.

IMO, sending the Blackhawk in for conversion is equal to having a prewar Smith and Wesson fitted with an internal lock, MIM hammer/trigger, and frame mounted firing pin.
Or, blasphemy, whichever you prefer.

I'd prefer to carry the Old Model in a secure holster with 5 or 6 rounds in the cylinder than to have it converted.
If Ruger doesn't send your original parts back, you have just another Ruger. No longer special.

As for what CraigC said about the gritty/creepy trigger, he's absolutely right.
The New Model Rugers can't hold a candle to the Old Model.
 
FWIW, this comes no where near qualifying as a "Negligent Discharge". It is a classic "Accidental Discharge". There is a huge difference. You were doing nothing negligent that led up to this. In fact you were trying to be very careful at the time and simply messed up. This is exactly why these guns were redesigned. Even when users were trying to do the right thing it is possible, quite easy in fact, for even experienced shooters to make the same mistake.

Getting it converted is a personal decision. If it were me I'd leave it alone. You had an accident, you will NEVER make that mistake again. In fact you will have a far better understanding of what can happen than those who have never had such an accident.

If you'd feel better converting it, do so. It can always put it back.
 
jmr40 thanks for your opinion.
Although I am not looking for any sympathy on this issue, it is nice to see that you recognize that I have put forth the effort to do the right thing. It just wasn't enough.
The Super Blackhawk is now on Armslist to be sold to someone who also appreciates the older Rugers as I do, but hopefully will be better suited to handle it with care.
I am asking $750 for the gun and the leather holster and belt, however, I'd rather trade it for another Marlin Lever rifle in any center fire caliber with JM proof stamp.
 
I inherited a 1970's 3 screw Blackhawk in .357 and the gun is awesome in fit finish and functionality. I have never shot it and probably never will as I can't find a way to lower the hammer after loading it without pulling the trigger and letting the hammer down....I'd only do it on an empty chamber. If yer finger slips it goes bang.

Blackhawk_zpsf328615a.jpg

I'd buy a gun with transfer bar if I intended to shoot it much *or* I'd only drop it on an empty chamber. But I would not alter the original by having it upgraded.

VooDoo
 
I inherited a 1970's 3 screw Blackhawk in .357 and the gun is awesome in fit finish and functionality. I have never shot it and probably never will as I can't find a way to lower the hammer after loading it without pulling the trigger and letting the hammer down....I'd only do it on an empty chamber. If yer finger slips it goes bang.
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Howdy Again

That gun is too nice not to shoot.

I posted this earlier, but I will post it again for you. This is the way to load a traditional single action revolver so that the hammer will be down on an empty chamber.


Set it on half cock. Open the loading gate. Load one round. Then skip one chamber. Then load four more. Close the loading gate. Then bring the hammer all the way to full cock, then carefully lower it. The hammer will be down on an empty chamber. You might want to put just a little bit of drag on the cylinder with your thumb to make sure it does not over rotate while doing this. You should use this method with any traditional single action revolver. Also, remember to never lower the hammer from half cock. Always bring it back to full cock before lowering it. That is how you avoid a ring around the cylinder with a traditional single action revolver.

Your Three Screw has clearance behind the cylinder, so that you can check by pointing it in a safe direction and looking from the side to make sure there is no live round under the hammer. Practice this at home with snap caps or spent brass until you can do it in your sleep, it really is not very hard.

By the way, if you are going to shoot any revolver, single action or double action, you should have confidence that you can lower the hammer without it slipping and firing the gun. All it takes is practice, you can do it with an empty gun. Just remember if you ever have to lower the hammer onto a live round, keep the gun pointed in a safe direction, just in case.
 
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FWIW, this comes no where near qualifying as a "Negligent Discharge". It is a classic "Accidental Discharge". There is a huge difference. You were doing nothing negligent that led up to this. In fact you were trying to be very careful at the time and simply messed up. This is exactly why these guns were redesigned. Even when users were trying to do the right thing it is possible, quite easy in fact, for even experienced shooters to make the same mistake.
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Disagree on both counts. If you're doing something wrong and it goes off, it's YOUR fault. That's negligence. Accidents are beyond your control. It's a nice out for those responsible, just like referring to car crashes as "accidents". No, it's usually somebody's fault.

The lawsuits originated from people that dropped their Blackhawk while it was fully loaded. Not manipulating the hammer. If you follow the basic safety rules and never point it at anything you do not want to destroy, ESPECIALLY when you're thumbing the hammer, it is no issue at all.


I have never shot it and probably never will as I can't find a way to lower the hammer after loading it without pulling the trigger and letting the hammer down....I'd only do it on an empty chamber.
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Good Lord, this nanny state we live in sure has made people afraid of the silliest things. I wonder how we ever survived for 140yrs before Ruger's transfer bar.
 
CraigC said:
Disagree on both counts. If you're doing something wrong and it goes off, it's YOUR fault. That's negligence. Accidents are beyond your control. It's a nice out for those responsible, just like referring to car crashes as "accidents". No, it's usually somebody's fault.

The lawsuits originated from people that dropped their Blackhawk while it was fully loaded. Not manipulating the hammer. If you follow the basic safety rules and never point it at anything you do not want to destroy, ESPECIALLY when you're thumbing the hammer, it is no issue at all.
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This is one of those rare occasions when I and CraigC totally agree. ADs are when something mechanical fails in a firearm, such as a slam fire or when the safety itself fails. Anytime the discharge is from human intervention such as lowering the trigger, it's a ND. As for the principle reason of the Blackhawk conversion because the gun going off when dropped or the hammer struck over a loaded chamber, totally correct. But, even those are debated by many whether or not they are a AD or ND, because in most cases, it's dropped or struck because of the actions of it's owner.
 
Hey guys, I have already confessed my sins, plead guilty, and put the gun up for sale in it's "romantic, pristine, classic, unmolested condition".

This bunch seems to fall mostly into 2 categories:
1. do not alter the firearm in any fashion for any reason, to do so would be like "killing a mockingbird".
2. the single action revolver "is not as inherently safe as some more modern designs".

I fall somewhere between group one and group two. That is why for me and me alone the correct solution is to leave the gun as is and sell it to someone in "category 1". (If interested you can search Armslist for Ruger Super Blackhawk Old Model.)
 
CraigC said:
Good Lord, this nanny state we live in sure has made people afraid of the silliest things. I wonder how we ever survived for 140yrs before Ruger's transfer bar.
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Point made. I wonder how many thumbs slipped and someone ended up shot. It's a lot of them I'd bet and all were experienced gun handlers - Even Bill Hickock had an accidental discharge that embarrassed him to his last.

I'm just not comfortable loading a gun that I have to cock the hammer and pull the trigger letting the hammer down with my thumb. Eventually I'll load it with one an empty chamber as described but I'll be on the range with the gun pointed downrange. Thank You, Driftwood!! :)

VooDoo
 
1. do not alter the firearm in any fashion for any reason, to do so would be like "killing a mockingbird".
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For me, it's not goring a sacred goat as it is with Ruger collectors. For single action fanciers, the original action is as good as it gets. It is smooth and triggers are usually a crisp 2-3lbs with little creep. It's also tough and durable. We don't lament the change because it's change, we lament the change because it does nothing positive for the sixgun's shootability and is only designed, no offense intended, to save the people from themselves. As long as you know how to handle one, there is ZERO advantage to the transfer bar but quite a few disadvantages. It makes the action rough and gritty with a terrible heavy and creepy trigger. No free lunches.
 
Point made. I wonder how many thumbs slipped and someone ended up shot. It's a lot of them I'd bet and all were experienced gun handlers - Even Bill Hickock had an accidental discharge that embarrassed him to his last.
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Howdy Again

There is absolutely no reason to assume that gun handlers were any more experienced 100 - 150 years ago then they are today. There were just as many people then who never or hardly ever touched a firearm.

The great majority of accidents with the old Single Actions happened because the hammer was struck, not because somebody's thumb slipped of the hammer. The so called 'safety-cock' notch on an old Colt, or a relatively modern Three Screw Ruger is relatively fragile and it does not take much of a blow to shear it or the sear off. Dropping the gun onto its hammer, or allowing a heavy stirrup to fall onto the hammer would do it. And yes, there were many deaths and injuries attributed to such incidents. That is exactly why it is always recommended to only carry these guns with 5 rounds loaded and an empty chamber under the hammer.

On October 5, 1871, Wild Bill was involved in a gunfight in Abilene. He caught a glimpse of movement behind him and turned and fired two shots, killing Special Deputy Marshal Mike Williams who was coming to Wild Bill's aide. That was not an accidental discharge, Wild Bill deliberately fired two well aimed shots. It was a case of not identifying his target properly in a high stress moment. Wild Bill did regret killing Williams for the rest of his life.

P.S. I like the mocking bird reference. I too think it is sin to convert a Three Screw.
 
Even Bill Hickock had an accidental discharge that embarrassed him to his last.
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That did happen, but to Wyatt Earp, not Bill Hockok.

The incident occured in Wichita, KA in January 1876. Wyatt was apparently sitting in on a card game when his revolver slipped out of the holster, hit the floor and discharged. Panic ensued, but no one was hurt.

Thereafter he made a point of advocating carrying the hammer down on an empty chamber.
 
I stand corrected - I remembered it wrong. I read that when I was in Monouth, Illinois, which is Wyatt Earps birthplace.

Thanks for catching it!! :)

Just back from the range today and re read this thread. Ya know, I think I'll take that Ruger to the range tomorrow with my Wife and throw a couple down range with it. He's right...it's too nice to not shoot it.

VooDoo
 
Let it ride for a bit and see what it does. If it doesn't sell or garner any interest, maybe knock a hundred off it. The ones I see for $750 usually have the original box and you wouldn't believe what some folks pay for old Ruger boxes!
 
May not get past today.
My local gun shop has had a couple of Marlin 336's in 35 Rem on their shelf for a while and I have wanted to try to get one, but was short on cash. One is an older model with plain wood, no checkering, and is priced at $469. The other is an '08 model which is right about when Marlin started having some issues even before they sold to Remington. My interest of late has really been fueled by Marlin Lever guns. I have a 45-70 and a 44 mag.
May see about some kind of trade.
 
For sale ad modified. I was probably too fond of the leather holster. Will sell it separately and locally on Craig's List.
 
Selling it is a good option, good luck. My 2 cents:

I have a 1961 Mercury with 54,000 original miles on it - bought it at 48,000 miles. It had the original motor, never rebuilt, all original paint, and a beautiful original interior with no rips or dashboard cracks and the original carpet...

...and no seat belts. I didn't even think twice about it. Holes were drilled through the original carpet and floor and seat belts were installed. If it were just about me, I wouldn't have done it, but my kids were going to ride in that car.

If the worst of the worst happens, the last thing you're going to be thinking about for the rest of your life is the originality of your gun.
 
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