Toledo Mayor Seeking Means to Ban Neo-Nazis

[Nimitz]

some very Radical thoughts coming out of this thread....

when one wants to throw law and order to the side because of his/her personal hate towards a group...sounds odly familar

Look I hate Nazi's as well, but you bet my ass i'll fight for their rights to protest to what they believe in...

embaressing when the citziens (thats who rioted?) are so against the Nazi's but then act no better than them...

btw Cosmo- when you said theres no legal duty for a cop to protect someone... I know for a fact that if a BSO cop seems a crime in progress, or an accident and doesnt stop he can face displinary action including being fired.

Chad

 

[torpid]

The responsibility of a free society is tolerance of those who voice their intolerance.

The late Simon Wiesenthal devoted his life to hunting down fugitive Nazis in order to bring them to justice when he found them. He did not assassinate them.

Mr. Wiesenthal survived the concentration camps and he and his wife lost a total of 89 relatives during the Holocaust, and yet he followed and espoused the rule of law.

Perhaps he just somehow didn't comprehend that the Nazis were evil? Was it a lack of understanding of the Nazis capacity for atrocities that is to blame for his not grasping that they were to be simply rounded up and exterminated without trial?

Though he was devoutly anti-Nazi, was he not anti-Nazi enough?
Should he be remembered as being ultimately "soft on Nazis" and decried as a failure for his lack of killing them on sight when he had the chance?


.

 

[VARifleman]

I'm sorry, I don't belive it's wrong to hate nazis. It's a good thing to hate nazis.

HATE is not the problem. A political group determined to overthrow our government, our way of life and slaughter all non-whites is the problem. Sometimes hate is entirely appropriate. Am I to love the nazi?

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone...

 

[Cosmoline]

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone...

Would you have told that to our troops at Normandy?

Our GOVERNMENT must tolerate these voices, at least in time of peace. That does not mean we have to use public resources to protect them from an enraged neighborhood. Nor does it mean we cannot actively hate Nazis and drink toasts when they are slaughtered. Their deaths are a positive good. Their voices are an absolute evil.

 

[Art Eatman]

Cosmo, for a real good time, said the phone number on the men's room wall, go to http://www.stormfront.org.

I'm sure your views will be highly appreciated.

, Art

 

[c_yeager]

That does not mean we have to use public resources to protect them from an enraged neighborhood.

Actually, that is exactly what we have to do. They pay the same taxes that you do so they get the same protections. If a whole bunch of people wanted to beat the crap out of you because they thought you were a whacko, then you would be protected toom, even if the mob happened to be correct.

 

[Bruce H]

There is a lot of difference between peaceful assembly and a riot. The Nazi's can assemble and march if they want to, peacefully. When a riot breaks out stack the perps like cordwook. Folks they ain't peaceful.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Cosmo, I have a great idea.

No one here likes Nazis, so to show how much we don't like them, why don't we all get together at your house?

And burn it down.

 

[Lupinus]

Cosmo? Are you completly daft?

So just because a group says something you personally don't like a group of ANIMALS should be allowed to attack peacfully marching people? Murder them and put their heads on a pike?

You are advocating that police should look aside and let a group of lawless animals murder people. Or if the tide turned in favor of the nazi's and they started killing their attackers then you just might want the police to go in? Or maybe we should let the aniamls form a line and hand them all weapons on their way into the frey? Give them a little advantage? I dispise liberal idiots, I wouldn't miss them when they are gone but Im not going to say go kill them. I don't like anti gun protestors. You don't see people saying that the next brady bunch convention should be allowed to be stormed.

The black GANGBANGERS every one of them in that riot is a CRIMINAL. The nazi's were there to protest the very criminals taking over a neighborhood you saw on your TV.

The nazi's came peacefully to protest. When another crowd gathered and violence threatend to erupt what happened? The nazi's were asked to leave and what did they do? Did that flip off the officers asking them to leave? Did THEY riot? NO, they left as peacfully as they came.

Who was it that rioted? The very ANIMALS the nazi's were there to protest. The nazi's didn't start a riot loot and burn down an inoocent mans buisness. A bunch of primarily black ANIMALES did.

Nazi's are morons, I havn't seen anyone dispute that. But put your blatant hate for them aside and put blame where it is due. With the animalsthat rioted.

Just because you don't agree with their message doesn't mean you have the right to advocate police turning a blind eye so they can be attacked.

I don't like MADD maybe I should advocate a gang of rapists going to disrupt thier next rally and the police not stopping it? I don't like a bunch of idiots who march to perpetuate imagined racisim and keep the victimized black race image going. Maybe I should advocate letting a few nazi's letting loose with automatic weapons fire on the crowd?

You don't have to like their message. But that does not give you the right to say police should allow them to be attacked.

 

[Jesse308]

when one wants to throw law and order to the side because of his/her personal hate towards a group...sounds odly familar

I totally agree

 

[scottgun]

Everyone is using the term 'nazi' as short hand, but these guys in Toledo are not nazis, they are Americans who belong to the National whatever.... , American Nazi Party whatever. I'm not defending them, just defining them. When you compare them to our troops landing on Normandy, fighting a country that we declared War against, you are not making valid comparisons.

Part of every group hates another group. Some Jews hate the Nazis, some whites call themselves Nazis and hate Jews and non-whites. Some blacks hate all whites. Some Japanese hate the Chinese. Some people in South Belgium hate people from North Belgium. And the cycle goes on and on. Ignorance isn't always bliss, sometimes it inspires hate and bigotry. To fall to their level is only playing along with their stupidity and ignorance.

 

[Titus]

Everyone is using the term 'nazi' as short hand, but these guys in Toledo are not nazis, they are Americans who belong to the National whatever.... , American Nazi Party whatever. I'm not defending them, just defining them. When you compare them to our troops landing on Normandy, fighting a country that we declared War against, you are not making valid comparisons.

Hey, they want to claim to be Nazis, they're grown men, let's take them at their word. And treat them like America treated the Nazis. You want to play for the team that went to war against the United States? Okay, is that treason or sedition or what? I don't know, but don't start crying when you get treated like what you claim to be. I got an idea, let's say they were rappers too! I bet I could get a lot more people to come out against them that way.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Hey, they want to claim to be Nazis, they're grown men, let's take them at their word. And treat them like America treated the Nazis. You want to play for the team that went to war against the United States? Okay, is that treason or sedition or what? I don't know, but don't start crying when you get treated like what you claim to be. I got an idea, let's say they were rappers too! I bet I could get a lot more people to come out against them that way.

Should the same standard apply the Communist Party, USA (after all, we did fight communists in several wars, and they killed more people than the Nazis.)

How about the Mormons? They rebelled against the US at one time.

And the Mexicans, British, Japanese, Spanish, and so on. They were all our enemies at one time. Shall we stone them in the streets -- while we burn property of nearby residents who are totally innocent of anything?

 

[Titus]

Should the same standard apply the Communist Party, USA (after all, we did fight communists in several wars, and they killed more people than the Nazis.)

How about the Mormons? They rebelled against the US at one time.

And the Mexicans, British, Japanese, Spanish, and so on. They were all our enemies at one time. Shall we stone them in the streets -- while we burn property of nearby residents who are totally innocent of anything?

Communism is slavery, and any Communist who wants to feel loved and accepted shouldn't look to me.

As for the rest, there's a reason I didn't say Germans.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Communism is slavery, and any Communist who wants to feel loved and accepted shouldn't look to me.

As for the rest, there's a reason I didn't say Germans.

Not to worry -- we'll use the Toledo system and riot against Germans when you're not around. And of course all the property we destroy will be owned by non-Germans.

 

[Titus]

Not to worry -- we'll use the Toledo system and riot against Germans when you're not around. And of course all the property we destroy will be owned by non-Germans.

All I know is, no one mistakes the rioters for what they are. Too bad they can't get the same consideration as a bunch of wannabe Nazis.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

All I know is, no one mistakes the rioters for what they are. Too bad they can't get the same consideration as a bunch of wannabe Nazis.

Agreed. Maybe we should put them all in an arena and sell tickets.

 

[longeyes]

What's really imporrtant about Toledo, I think, is not the labels we're attaching to either side but rather the dynamic that was in play. We have a pack of out of control thugs whom many of us might view as the offspring of a corrupt and invidious welfare state, with all of its socialist predicates, running up against a pack of fed-up nationalists who are reflecting the silent race war that is festering inside America. Taking sides here isn't important; both directions are poisonous. If we want to avoid this race, ethnic, and cultural war from becoming serious and "hot," then we are going to have to push harder for the alternatives to prevail: Reason, personal responsibility, the rule of law, civil liberties.

When it comes to "the rooftops," we will all be the losers.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

What's really imporrtant about Toledo, I think, is not the labels we're attaching to either side but rather the dynamic that was in play. We have a pack of out of control thugs whom many of us might view as the offspring of a corrupt and invidious welfare state, with all of its socialist predicates, running up against a pack of fed-up nationalists who are reflecting the silent race war that is festering inside America. Taking sides here isn't important; both directions are poisonous. If we want to avoid this race, ethnic, and cultural war from becoming serious and "hot," then we are going to have to push harder for the alternatives to prevail: Reason, personal responsibility, the rule of law, civil liberties.

When it comes to "the rooftops," we will all be the losers.

The other day I came across an obscure and seldom-used document that tells us exactly how to solve these problems. It's called "The Constitution of the United States."

 

[longeyes]

+1

Yes, our Constitution, lying half-buried under MTV and Ted Kennedy's discarded Scotch bottles, needs to be re-discovered and re-affirmed.

I oppose fascism as much as anyone here. I think we also need to be realistic about the pent-up anger that is brewing out there about many social problems. The Minutemen, wanting to control illegal immigration, were called "vigilantes"--even by our own President. Are we going to call anyone fed up with the gangocracy "Nazis?" These extremists, as extremists often do, are warning signs of what's coming soon to a suburb near you.

 

[longeyes]

The gangbangers and the American Nazis are, however dangerous, however repellent, are minor-league fascists. The real Nazis, the true major leaguers, are, increasingly, to be found in the American elites, making policy at every level in defiance of both the will of the people and the Constitution.

 

[S.O. Interceptor]

Wow, amazing. Ban the law abiding citizens from having a legal gathering, and absolve the criminals of all responsibility because they got mad. The last I checked, just about every state has a law that says verbal provocation is no justification for committing a criminal act. But since it was a bunch of gangbangers, it's okay for them to endanger an entire city because they got mad at a group they don't agree with.

I can't help but wonder if the mayor would be calling for the banning if it was a black hate group that had a legal rally, and a bunch of white people rioted in retaliation? If a group of white people rioted and attacked the police because they didn't agree with a Nation of Islam rally, would the mayor be protecting them? I doubt it. More than likely, we'd have hundreds of of news channels with people like Jesse Jackson screaming about racial intolerance, and blaming the government for allowing it to happen, and calling for criminal charges. I can't stand racial hate groups like the Nation of Islam, but somehow I resist the urge to riot. A few years ago, there was a KKK rally here. I hate the KKK, but once again, I managed not to start destroying my city and trying to kill the police. But I guess I just dont "get it".

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Wow, amazing. Ban the law abiding citizens from having a legal gathering, and absolve the criminals of all responsibility because they got mad. The last I checked, just about every state has a law that says verbal provocation is no justification for committing a criminal act. But since it was a bunch of gangbangers, it's okay for them to endanger an entire city because they got mad at a group they don't agree with.

Right. Let's throw the Constitution in the trash. Who needs that obsolete Bill of Rights, anyway.

Now, let's all pick someone we don't like and go out and hang them.

Wait a minute -- we have to use the Toledo method. We hang our neighbors to prove how much we don't like someone else.:banghead:

I gather you're as dumbfounded as I am at the idea that it's okay to riot -- and destroy innocent peoples' property -- if you reeeeely, reeeely don't like someone.

 

[Jeff Timm]

The problem is noone is responding properly.

That is, someone wearing Nazi regalia marches, it's a clear and present danger with historical precedent. Therefore you shoot them very, very dead.

If I'm on the jury, I'll never convict anyone of killing a Nazi, once they have declaired themselves such, they are fair game.

Geoff
Who states the obvious. Cross reference Nuremburg rallies 1930s.

 

[Cosmoline]

btw Cosmo- when you said theres no legal duty for a cop to protect someone... I know for a fact that if a BSO cop seems a crime in progress, or an accident and doesnt stop he can face displinary action including being fired.

I'm not talking about disciplinary action for an officer failing to follow orders. I'm talking about a department as a whole telling neo-nazis they will have no protection. That decision cannot be second-guessed and cannot form the basis of a lawsuit, anymore than the decision of the LAPD to get out of Dodge when the riots started. The police have no legally enforceable duty to protect anyone.