Toomey Folds - Joins Schumer, Manchin and Kirk on UBC Compromise

[CLP]

Cos, are you suggesting that occasional private party sales that do not use internet, such as between a couple long time freinds or between people you do business with (co-workers) (not gun business) are exempt from the new rules?

That's what they're saying. It sounds like this would put a stop to FTF transfers when the firearm is sourced on a classified ad- Armslist for example. It wouldn't ban two neighbors from doing a private transfer sans background check.

 

[Bubba613]

No, it is not meaningless. Frequently in the past, politicians have supported expanding background checks to cover private sales at gun shows. Almost every single time, they end up writing a bill that would define all kinds of private sales as "gun shows".

Yup, it is. Just because some pol (you've never said who) wants to define a casual meeting as a gun show doesn't make it. It's basically noise.

Where in the federal code is gun show given a very specific meaning and how do you know whether that meaning is changed by Toomey's bill when none of us have seen the text of the bill yet?

CFR 27.478.100 defines what a gun show is. No one knows what's in the compromise bill. Which has been my point.

Would you like to explain what you are talking about and how it is relevant in a way I can understand?

A licensee may sell only on premises or at a gun show. In order to know what constitutes a gun show it must be defined. Otherwise I could call my friend Jeff's living room a gun show and sell guns to him there (I being a licensed dealer). So expanding the definition to include things that are obviously not gun shows is not going to happen.

 

[hang fire]

All the time I hear it will never pass the house, to that, I say BS. With current balace of GOP to Dem, it would only take about 21 weak kneed pubbies for it to be a done deal.

 

[Bubba613]

You're not counting the pro-gun Dems who are up for re-election next year and cannot afford to vote anti-gun.

 

[JRH6856]

All the time I hear it will never pass the house, to that, I say BS. With current balace of GOP to Dem, it would only take about 21 weak kneed pubbies for it to be a done deal.

Most of the Tea Party Republicans were elected on tax and spending issues, not for their 2A support. I suspect there are quite a few who would give in on gun control in exchange for a deal on the tax and spending cuts they were elected to get. That is why it is important to send the weakest bill possible to the House. Or preferably none at all.

 

[Queen_of_Thunder]

I didn't think it would get this far so expecting the house to step up is wishfully thinking.

 

[Nanook]

Kirk is a RINO, and hates guns and gun owners with the usual IL passion.

Calls to him are wasted electrons, his mind is made up.

 

[hunttheevil]

Phase 2 of background checks

The ATF is ready to update the 50 year old Firearm tracing system:

http://news.yahoo.com/senate-deal-b...f9d6c7ebb&bcmt_s=u#mediacommentsugc_container

Though Sens, Joe Manchin (R) of W. Va and Pat Toomey (R) of Penn. have reached a deal on background checks to take form as an amendment to the Senate gun control bill, a key piece of the White House’s gun control plan is at risk of failure *– specifically, the process by which law enforcement agencies trace the original source of a gun sale during criminal investigations. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) is using 1960s era technology to manage a 21st century problem. As gun traces increase under stepped up enforcement, the system must be updated in order to keep up.

Phase 3 will be the National Gun Registry they are so salivating over!!

 

[4season]

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/04/harry-reid-joe-manchin-pat-toomey-89806.html

UBC bill has been amended/watered down to the point where the moderate Republicans are likely to accept it.

Moderate Republicans are the problem. If you live in a state with a RINO like McCain, Gramm, etc.... is your senator then you are part of the problem. Vote them idiots out. I don't exclude myself either. I will not be voting for Alexander or Corker either. If we don't get control of the republican party now, this country is doomed.

 

[hso]

We seem to be running around in circles like the sky is falling all on the strength of some MSM reports and a press conference when we haven't seen any details. This "compromise" still has to be voted on and there is NOTHING etched in stone yet. Are we going to fold with this one punch or are we still in the fight!?

 

[limpingbear]

Before they can institute a national gun registry they would have to repeal FOPA which forbids the federal government from creating a registry of gun owners. I seriously doubt they would get the votes to repeal FOPA....

 

[Torian]

Before they can institute a national gun registry they would have to repeal FOPA which forbids the federal government from creating a registry of gun owners. I seriously doubt they would get the votes to repeal FOPA....

Agreed, however they still might make some excuse to hold onto the data. This way, if they are able to repeal FOPA down the road, they have all the historical records to create their registry.

 

[hso]

They can't "make an excuse" because the law says they can't. They can repeal FOPA, but gaming it isn't going to get through until both the House and Senate are set to make that happen.

 

[Twmaster]

Are we going to fold with this one punch or are we still in the fight!?

I've re-taped my hands. Ready for the next round!

 

[Twmaster]

Buck up! It will not make it through the House! As Tug said," You gotta believe!"

And all of us need to ensure that does not happen if this abomination makes it out of the Senate.

Make sure your Congress Critter understands the repercussions of voting for this tyranny.

 

[12many]

Re FOPA, the records already exist don't they at the gun shops. All records are kept on hard copy. Not all transfers but the majority.

 

[gfanikf]

Re FOPA, the records already exist don't they at the gun shops. All records are kept on hard copy. Not all transfers but the majority.

Well duh

 

[deputy tom]

GOA provided a pre-written message for individual e-mail users to respond to Mr. Toomey's actions today. I used it and have been using their material for quite some time. I will not be voting for Mr. Toomey this election. He knows it too. tom.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Yup, it is. Just because some pol (you've never said who) wants to define a casual meeting as a gun show doesn't make it. It's basically noise.

So because politicians have tried to do this in the past and Toomey will not explain how it is defined in his bill, we shouldn't worry about it? We should just assume it will work out for the best? I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

Otherwise I could call my friend Jeff's living room a gun show and sell guns to him there (I being a licensed dealer).

Well, I guess I understand why you aren't all that concerned about more NICS checks being forced on gun owners then.

The Toomey-Manchin bill is opposed by NRA. It is supported by Schumer, Bloomberg and Biden. That is plenty of information for me to make my decision.

 

[LNK]

Well duh

As someone who currenty resides in the peoples republic of MA, I can tell you my three most local gunstores have personally told me, if the feds want to take the 4473's from the store, they will have to sift through the ashes to read them from the "accidental fire" that happened before their arrival....

LNK

 

[beeenbag]

As someone who currenty resides in the peoples republic of MA, I can tell you my three most local gunstores have personally told me, if the feds want to take the 4473's from the store, they will have to sift through the ashes to read them from the "accidental fire" that happened before their arrival....

LNK

Big words... Highly unlikely, more likely to be a subconcious effort to make their customers feel safe buying from them.

 

[InkEd]

Filthy sellout cockroach! Toomey is an utter piece of human garbage! This in absolutely NO way represents the feelings of the people that voted for him. ANY Republican that accepts a "compromise" or "deal" on any gun control law with Obama in office MUST be pulled from the party's ticket. Period!

 

[Texan Scott]

Start the letter writing machines! (I like the current NRA-ILA engine).

Those of you that would like a slightly more tailored alternative to the NRA form letter, please feel free to use or adapt mine as you see fit:

I'm sure you're aware that Senators Toomey and Manchin announced today that they have reached a compromise on Universal Background Checks for firearms purchases. PLEASE OPPOSE THIS.

This bill will not address crime, but merely create a new class of "criminals" by criminalizing what are today LEGAL ACTIONS OF LAW-ABIDING CITIZENS.

Please OPPOSE emotionally charged, ill-considered, reactionary legislation that tramples the rights of your law-abiding constituents and treats them like criminals.

As always, I promise you that my voice and my vote will be used tirelessly to support those who support my constitutional rights, and I look forward to receiving your assurance that you will do so.

 

[Hypnogator]

Personally, I fail to see the evil in the bill worked out by Toomey & Manchin. It only requires background checks on all transactions at gun shows (where facilities will be available to, er, facilitate transactions) and on Internet sales which already require transfer by a dealer, and thus a background check. A minor inconvenience, at worst.

OTOH, it removes the restriction on interstate sales of handguns, mandates state reporting of felons and the criminally insane, and provides for fifteen years in prison for anyone who attempts to use firearms transactional records to establish a database.

While I agree that felons and crazies will continue to acquire firearms illegally, it will make it at least somewhat harder for them.

It looks to me like a good compromise - we give up very little in terms of inconvenience, and gain quite a bit in terms of our ability to acquire firearms.

 

[76shuvlinoff]

This is no compromise, it is a concession and if it does not die there are many more to come.