Toomey-Manchin Text Released Embrace the Suck

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That's what I expected. Pretty much any transfer involving any internet ad--even a classified cross-printed on line--will require a check. I dare say that implicates most FTF transfers in the 21st century. And broadly construed (as BATFE doubtless WILL construe it), it would encompass any transfer involving any exchange of email, text message or PM on a forum. Post in the rifle forum and mention you might want to sell a rifle? Now you are barred from FTF transfer without NICS. Forever, presumably. It's a nightmare begetting nightmares. Far worse than a total UBC in some ways, because of the traps it lays for the unwary.
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No, that is not the case. The new requirement does not apply if:
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"(B) the transfer is made between an unlicensed transferor and an unlicensed transferee residing in the same State, which takes place in such State, if-
"(i) the Attorney General certifies that State in which the transfer takes place has in effect requirements under law that are generally equivalent to the requirements of this section; and
"(ii) the transfer was conducted in compliance with the laws of the State;
People need to read the actual text here before going off.
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Good point, read it all in its context. Don't skip and read the "juicy" parts.


Sounds like FTF personal sales are allowed, but only from your private residence?

"(7) For purposes of this subsection, the term ‘gun show or event'-
"(A) means any event at which 75 or more firearms are offered or exhibited for sale, exchange, or transfer, if 1 or more of the firearms has been shipped or transported in, or otherwise affects, interstate or foreign commerce; and
"(B) does not include an offer or exhibit of firearms for sale, exchange, or transfer by an individual from the personal collection of that individual, at the private residence of that individual, if the individual is not required to be licensed under section 923.".
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There is the key word. This is exempting someone that may be selling their entire estate of more than the 75 gun limit, from being considered a gun show and having to do background checks, As long as they do it at their home. This does not mean all FTF transactions have to take place at your home, just estate sales that meet the requirements to be considered a gun show if you want to be exempt from NICS.
 
Toomey's site said on Wednesday that transfers between friends and neighbors, and other people would be expemted. I did not see anything about friends and neighbors in the text. Did I miss something? (I even used the search function of my browser on those words)
 
Morcey, I should have added that I do indeed oppose background checks, on the principle that law-abiding citizens shouldn't be treated as criminals.
Sorry for coming across as apathetic!
 
morcey2 said:
From what I've read so far, the "Interstate Transportation" section will override all local and state laws allowing any concealed or open possession of a loaded firearm in a vehicle. All firearms must be locked up, ammunition must be separate, and not just securely cased. I'm not a lawyer, but I couldn't find an exemption for it.

Matt
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Someone please tell me this is wrong. This is one of the main reasons that I have my CCW permit in PA. So I can carry them loaded since a vehicle is considered concealment here. This really bothers me since Toomey is from this state.


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How exactly is the BS gonna stop gang bangers from buying guns that their lowlife buddies stole during a burglary/robbery?

This is ludicrous!
 
dragon, does that only apply when you're crossing state lines though? (not that it makes it a good law if it does)
 
dragon813gt said:
Someone please tell me this is wrong. This is one of the main reasons that I have my CCW permit in PA. So I can carry them loaded since a vehicle is considered concealment here. This really bothers me since Toomey is from this state.


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Like I said, IANAL. I read the proposed bill and tried to fit it into the existing law, but this is a total layman's reading of it.

Matt
 
Bubba613:

Based on the information provided by H.M.B. in Post #5, the scenario I proposed in Post #14 was entirely plausible. He did not note the exceptions that you noted later.

Based on the exemptions described in your post (Post #16), the scenario I proposed is not plausible, and I am wrong.

Thank you for providing more complete information. That's what I get for not clicking the link myself!
 
Armslist, utahgunexchange.com, and tons of others would disappear overnight.
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Could you elaborate? I don't see why requiring (by law) a background check for a non-dealer sale would add any more friction to the deal than the transfer fee, maybe I'm missing something.
 
I'm imagining a big building, with lots of little divided spaces, like an antique mall.

And in each space, there is an individual gun show, each with 74 guns....
 
This is garbage. So I can only buy and sale face to face in parking lots with people who have handgun carry permits? If not, then the person has to come to my house? No thank you.

Keep the pressure on the House of Representatives.
 
here is where I stand after reading the complete text...

First off, I do not support it out of sheer principal, but, if it were to pass, I really don't think we will see much change at all.

This bill will make all transfers at gunshows require nics.
It will still allow ftf private transfers in state without nics.
It will allow ftf transactions between individuals where the deal was constructed online.
all shipping transfers will be the same.
We will be allowed to buy handguns from dealers out of state ftf.

Basically, it makes the gunshows a big gun store and keeps the internet from becoming a way around dealers doing nics.
 
If politicians have proposed it there is bound to be problems with a free people. As the comment about gang bangers pointed out, they already do not enforce the laws they have so these regulations will likely be used only to hassle the law abiding who are only trying to survive in an increasingly hostile and regulated world.
 
razorback2003 said:
This is garbage. So I can only buy and sale face to face in parking lots with people who have handgun carry permits? If not, then the person has to come to my house? No thank you.

Keep the pressure on the House of Representatives.
Click to expand...
Did you even read it? The part everybody is getting messed up about your house is in the definition of a gun show.

The only time a transaction is required to stay at your residence, is when you have more than 75 guns from a personal collection that you are selling if you want to be exempt from the background checks.
 
Are you guys seeing in the bill that people who have handgun carry permits can still advertise on Armslist? Also will people with handgun carry permits be able to sale face to face OUT of State? Such as I am a TN resident, will i be able to sale face to face to an Arkansas resident who has a pistol license? What about giving a gun to a family member in another state with this bill? Or does everyone have to be residents of the same state?
 
irst off, I do not support it out of sheer principal, but, if it were to pass, I really don't think we will see much change at all.

This bill will make all transfers at gunshows require nics.
It will still allow ftf private transfers in state without nics.
It will allow ftf transactions between individuals where the deal was constructed online.
all shipping transfers will be the same.
We will be allowed to buy handguns from dealers out of state f
Click to expand...

Which part do you not support? The part where you can buy handguns across state lines? The part where your carry permit substitutes for a NICS check? The part where NICS has 24 hours to respond, not 72?

The only people screwed here are the guys setting up tables at gunshows with big signs saying "No background check". And to heck with them.
 
Which part do you not support? The part where you can buy handguns across state lines? The part where your carry permit substitutes for a NICS check? The part where NICS has 24 hours to respond, not 72?

The only people screwed here are the guys setting up tables at gunshows with big signs saying "No background check". And to heck with them.
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There is really nothing in the text that I am "against".
I will not support it out of the sheer principal of creating more useless laws that will do nothing to prevent further crime.

If this is the only thing that makes it through, I will not be upset. I do fear blumenthaw's proposal to "spear head" the amendments of the AWB and Hi cap magazine restrictions being added to this bill.
 
Basically, it makes the gunshows a big gun store and keeps the internet from becoming a way around dealers doing nics.
Click to expand...

Why should I have to pay to have a background check done before I can sell my property? And since when can you use the internet to get around a background check?
 
I do fear blumenthaw's proposal to "spear head" the amendments of the AWB and Hi cap magazine restrictions being added to this bill
Click to expand...

No they need to be added. They will be a poison pill.
 
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