Jammer Six
member
Ah. Sounds like it must hurt to be Bobby-Lee...
Top Battle Sidearm
- Thread starter The Dutchman
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Dave Markowitz
Member
Of the choices offerred by the OP, I'd take a 1911, preferably my very accurate and reliable Springfield Loaded. 
The HK is just too big for my hands, and I don't like how the Berretta or Glock feel. They are reliable guns, though, assuming you have good ammo and mags.
However, given an unlimited choice in sidearms, I'd probably take my Ruger P90. It isn't the most glamorous sidearm, and it took my years to warm up to Ruger centerfire autos, but they are accurate, and as rugged and reliable as a Kalashnikov.
The HK is just too big for my hands, and I don't like how the Berretta or Glock feel. They are reliable guns, though, assuming you have good ammo and mags.
However, given an unlimited choice in sidearms, I'd probably take my Ruger P90. It isn't the most glamorous sidearm, and it took my years to warm up to Ruger centerfire autos, but they are accurate, and as rugged and reliable as a Kalashnikov.
1911 guy
Member
Original 1911
If it's an original configuration, I'll take the 1911 any day of the week. If it's gonna be somebody's "improved" rendition, I'll take the Berreta. Or a dead enemy to plunder for a rifle.
If it's an original configuration, I'll take the 1911 any day of the week. If it's gonna be somebody's "improved" rendition, I'll take the Berreta. Or a dead enemy to plunder for a rifle.
Glock has produced over 1,000,000 pistols for sure and some claim they have produced closer to 2,000,000.
Is is logical for you to assume that some of them have not been in combat when almost every other decent handgun ever made in the history of the world has been in combat somewhere in the world?
Do you also assume that with the thousands of Glocks in service with PD's all over the US that none of these have been used in a real gunfight?
Ash
Member
First, carried by cops who get to take a shower every evening is different from a soldier stuck in the mud/sand/dirt for 6 weeks straight.
Second, touche on your comment, as the quip about your getting your feelings hurt was perhaps a bit strong. That said, you should perhaps point out what BS I have posted if for nothing else so that I might understand my own BS. You might base on logic, and good for you. The choice of a deadly weapon should be made in that way.
While you are at it, don't fail to see how others base their decisions on logic, experience, and plain old common sense as well. Glock is not the ultimate summation of the previous three notions. It might be the end of the contemplative path, but my friend, that path is a web of travelled ways, leading to an almost infinite number of outcomes brought about by just as many needs.
Ash
Second, touche on your comment, as the quip about your getting your feelings hurt was perhaps a bit strong. That said, you should perhaps point out what BS I have posted if for nothing else so that I might understand my own BS. You might base on logic, and good for you. The choice of a deadly weapon should be made in that way.
While you are at it, don't fail to see how others base their decisions on logic, experience, and plain old common sense as well. Glock is not the ultimate summation of the previous three notions. It might be the end of the contemplative path, but my friend, that path is a web of travelled ways, leading to an almost infinite number of outcomes brought about by just as many needs.
Ash
That is correct but the huge number of indoor range comando's here don't seem to be able to understand this simple fact.
They "carry" their clean and lubed "carry gun" from their house to the trunk of their car and from the trunk to the nice clean indoor range where they fire 50 rounds in the general direction of the target and they put it back in the case and "carry" it back to the car.
When they get home thay spend hours cleaning it and making sure it is properly lubed before putting it back in the safe.
They make all sorts of claims about how their gun is the perfect carry gun even though they have never carried it.
They also "know" it would be the perfect sidearm to carry in combat but they have no idea if the damn thing would even function if it was not spotless clean and well lubed.
They don't seem to know that in the outdoors things get dirty.
Ash
Member
Okay, to keep things on as light a note as possible, you have a point. One cannot say their Parabellum is battle-worthy because it has been carefully cleaned and maintained. We all know the P-08, while a fascinating work of machinery, was not suitable for the down and dirty mud of the trenches. However, the 1911 was. In WWII, the BHP proved likewise, as did the P-38. The CZ-75 has proven successful in the poor conditions of southern Africa and Central America.
However, I tell you that I refuse to abuse my handguns. My CZ's, my Witness, Webley and Nagants, Colt Trooper and a few others get treated well. They have always performed for me and they are of designs that have proven their worth. I am unwilling to mistreat something in which I have invested so much money and would not take pride in such abuse. I would not brag that I did not keep it clean, that I threw it in the mud and then fired it, or that I left it in the rain. I treat my sockets and wrenches the same as my pistols, wiping them off after each use. My rifles ditto, even my work Jeep, which goes through all the grief that Hummer owners would cringe at, gets thorough maintenance, even if the body is banged up from stumps and scratched up from limbs. I keep it clean. My knives I use to cut with, but I won't cut wire with them nor use them as a hammer. I have wire cutters and hammers for those jobs.
Now, if you abuse your Glock, which I must assume you do, then fine by me. You can even shout to the world that yours is better than mine because yours has been abused and still fires whereas mine has not been abused (but still fires). You can boast that because you mistreat your firearms and they still work, then they must be better than the other guy's goods because he keeps his clean. You will be wrong, and the only point you will be making is that your stuff is ridden hard and put away wet.
Ash
However, I tell you that I refuse to abuse my handguns. My CZ's, my Witness, Webley and Nagants, Colt Trooper and a few others get treated well. They have always performed for me and they are of designs that have proven their worth. I am unwilling to mistreat something in which I have invested so much money and would not take pride in such abuse. I would not brag that I did not keep it clean, that I threw it in the mud and then fired it, or that I left it in the rain. I treat my sockets and wrenches the same as my pistols, wiping them off after each use. My rifles ditto, even my work Jeep, which goes through all the grief that Hummer owners would cringe at, gets thorough maintenance, even if the body is banged up from stumps and scratched up from limbs. I keep it clean. My knives I use to cut with, but I won't cut wire with them nor use them as a hammer. I have wire cutters and hammers for those jobs.
Now, if you abuse your Glock, which I must assume you do, then fine by me. You can even shout to the world that yours is better than mine because yours has been abused and still fires whereas mine has not been abused (but still fires). You can boast that because you mistreat your firearms and they still work, then they must be better than the other guy's goods because he keeps his clean. You will be wrong, and the only point you will be making is that your stuff is ridden hard and put away wet.
Ash
Only an idiot would abuse the gun they depend on to protect their lives.
I do carry my gun everyday unlike some.
It is also carried in outdoors where it gets dirty and muddy and it goes into places where it is not maintained on a daily basis.
I know how it compares to other guns in the same enviroment. I know it is still reliable no matter if it is clean or dirty dry or lubed.
I do know if it gets completly soaked and cloged with mud it can be washed out in a stream and it will function and I don't have to worry about it rusting overnight.
If you don't know how your carry gun does in this kind of enviroment then you don't know much about how your gun would work in combat.
The indoor range guys can only assume how their gun would do in the real world.
I do carry my gun everyday unlike some.
It is also carried in outdoors where it gets dirty and muddy and it goes into places where it is not maintained on a daily basis.
I know how it compares to other guns in the same enviroment. I know it is still reliable no matter if it is clean or dirty dry or lubed.
I do know if it gets completly soaked and cloged with mud it can be washed out in a stream and it will function and I don't have to worry about it rusting overnight.
If you don't know how your carry gun does in this kind of enviroment then you don't know much about how your gun would work in combat.
The indoor range guys can only assume how their gun would do in the real world.
DonNikmare
Member
CZ P-01
or its bigger brother the new SPO1
or its bigger brother the new SPO1
Alpha Wolf
Member
Battle sidearm?
When you absolutely have to stop someone on the first shot!
It fires regardless of conditions, and it stops whatever it hits!
John Browning was a genius..... Accept no substitute.
I will leave the 9mm to you little guys...
When you absolutely have to stop someone on the first shot!1911
It fires regardless of conditions, and it stops whatever it hits!
John Browning was a genius..... Accept no substitute.
I will leave the 9mm to you little guys...
Krag
Member
TXMason - so has the 7.62mm TT33 Tokarev, the PM Makarov, the C96 Broomhandle Mauser, the 9mm Walther P38, the....................well, you get my drift.
I am sick and tired of the guys who say, "The Germans used a 9mm and we used a .45. We won the war so the .45 1911 must be the best combat pistol in the world." Phooey! We would have won the war if our troops carried .32 H&R top break revolvers.
FWIW, I know a number of Special Ops guys from Ft. Bragg who have served in Iraq and Afghanistan. Almost to a man they say if they have to carry a pistol (which most don't bother doing if they can help it) they like a light weight one that holds lot of rounds. The SIG M11 is a favorite and a number carry personally owned Glocks with the G19 seeming to be the favorite.
I am sick and tired of the guys who say, "The Germans used a 9mm and we used a .45. We won the war so the .45 1911 must be the best combat pistol in the world." Phooey! We would have won the war if our troops carried .32 H&R top break revolvers.
FWIW, I know a number of Special Ops guys from Ft. Bragg who have served in Iraq and Afghanistan. Almost to a man they say if they have to carry a pistol (which most don't bother doing if they can help it) they like a light weight one that holds lot of rounds. The SIG M11 is a favorite and a number carry personally owned Glocks with the G19 seeming to be the favorite.
Ahem... let's keep it civil kids.
(moderator hat on)
No need for name calling. You can do that all you want via private messages, you don't need to do it here.
(moderator hat on)
No need for name calling. You can do that all you want via private messages, you don't need to do it here.
Jammer Six
member
1911.
Long, long battle record.
Long, long battle record.
G17 in todays world (Glock may not have seen alot of "battle" but plenty of US LE have used it and a few armies have as well and they have seen plenty of abuse at the hands of various people who like to "torture" guns).
If somehow, some way the US military switches back to .45, then a smooth, loose, reliable GI 1911 with hardball would be great.
If somehow, some way the US military switches back to .45, then a smooth, loose, reliable GI 1911 with hardball would be great.
"I see people say this from time to time, but what happens if your rifle is disabled?
Do you throw rocks?"
"If the time comes where I need a rifle there will be plenty of 'em laying around." Quote from the Sgt. Major in "Once We Were Soldiers"
Dr. Rob,
He's doing it again....
Do you throw rocks?"
"If the time comes where I need a rifle there will be plenty of 'em laying around." Quote from the Sgt. Major in "Once We Were Soldiers"
Dr. Rob,
He's doing it again....
I have several points.
First just because a type of handgun was used in the past in the military does not make it good. There are several weapons that were in service with the armies of the world that were not so good and even if they were good THEN that does not mean that something more modern is not better. If the US military thought like some of you did we would still be going to war with the Trapdoor Springfield and the SAA.
Also the 1911 does have a good service record but that has NOTHING to do with the tight target guns sold today. Such guns do not do so well unless thay are properly maintained and kept clean and lubed. That is not always possible in the outdoors when someone is trying to kill you.
Another point is that only those who have never had to shoot someone ASSUME the .45 acp will always stop someone in their tracks.
I hear this BS everyday from the gunshop and internet "experts" that have never fired a shot in a gunfight.
If you are going to pick a handgun to take into combat there are better choices other than what Sgt. York carried in WW-I.
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