Top cop facing gun quiz (England - why has crime gone up despite gun control?)

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patent

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Top cop facing gun quiz

QUIZZED: Alan Green

A POLICE chief was being asked today why gun crime has doubled although hand-guns have been banned.

Every hour in Britain there is a crime involving firearms - andTory spokesman for police, James Paice, was meeting Greater Manchester's Deputy Chief Constable Alan Green to discuss the issue.

Mr Paice was also asking why gun crime in Scotland has been halved in the past decade.

He wanted to talk to Mr Green, who is spokesman on gun crime for the Association of Chief Police Officers, about the 36.3 per cent increase in violent crime in Greater Manchester between 1998 and last year, and whether more police are needed.

Conservatives have promised 40,000 extra officers, with Manchester getting 2,271 more.

Mr Paice said there was a contradiction. "From the middle of 1997 all hand-guns were banned and yet gun crime, which is nearly all hand-guns anyway, has doubled.

Evidence

"We have to ask whether legislation dealing with illegal ownership of firearms has any relevance to the illegal use of them for crime."

He said he was worried about the type of guns being used, including conventional gas cartridge weapons, converted replicas, and reactivated guns.

"You also have the real McCoy, although all the evidence I'm getting is that the real problem is former Warsaw Pact weapons.

"The majority of guns being carried by drug gangs are conversions."

Mr Paice was asking Mr Green about the source of the weapons and whether legislation is working.

During today's visit Mr Paice was also meeting Mothers Against Violence, a group of mums whose children have been victims of gun crime in Manchester.

He said: "I want to meet them to understand their perspective. I'm not going as a prophet, I'm going to listen and learn because we'll never solve the problems of crime if local communities aren't involved and supportive."
 
It seems that the drugs the drug dealers are selling are smuggled into England, why would anyone who is sane think that the smugglers couldn't smuggle in guns as well?????

If its illegal and you can make money on it then there will be a thriving black market for it, guns, drugs, gambling, sex, its all the same.

Crimminals commit crimes

law abiding citizens dont commit crimes

"You also have the real McCoy, although all the evidence I'm getting is that the real problem is former Warsaw Pact weapons
 
"We have to ask whether legislation dealing with illegal ownership of firearms has any relevance to the illegal use of them for crime."

Duh, you think?

Who TF do these twits think obeys gun laws in the first place? It surely isn't the drug gangs or other criminals. Damn, if laws prevented bad acts, Jack the Ripper wouldn't have murdered anyone.

I seriously wonder whether some drug has been added to the water supply in England - the whole nation seems to have gone off the deep end. Apologies to those few who have their heads screwed on right.
 
Sam Adams
quote:"We have to ask whether legislation dealing with illegal ownership of firearms has any relevance to the illegal use of them for crime."



Duh, you think?

Who TF do these twits think obeys gun laws in the first place? It surely isn't the drug gangs or other criminals...

I seriously wonder whether some drug has been added to the water supply in England - the whole nation seems to have gone off the deep end. Apologies to those few who have their heads screwed on right.

Some people over here do seem to be wakin g up, though. (Like me, for example). The Daily Telegraph has also run a few anti-gun-control articles recently, to.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2004/03/15/do1505.xml
 
Excellent article Iapetus. Obviously there are plenty of intelligent discerning people left in the UK, some of them even writing for major news outlets. I'm going to drop Mr. Johnston a line and invite him to swing by our forum if he ever needs to do any technical research regarding firearms issues for future pieces.
 
or the people who Run PRK the land of fruits and nuts
needless bashing not appreciated and adds nothing to the conversation.
He said he was worried about the type of guns being used, including conventional gas cartridge weapons, converted replicas, and reactivated guns.
I'm not sure I understand this sentence; is he referring to air pistols and zip guns? Does the UK have a plethora of ‘deactivated’ firearms? What would be the point other than keeping the ‘Ye Olde Grouse Gunne’ as a wall hanger?
 
The recent, and largely unsung, abolition of the Firearms Consultative Committee, which advised the Home Office on legislation, has left shooters without any forum in which to argue their case and they fear another assault on their sport and way of life in order that the Government can be seen to be "doing something" about guns to cover up its failure to curb violent crime.

Now this is an evil move. Very... orwellian... stalinist... nazi... kafkaesque.

We have a committee of this kind and it's entirely crucial for a decent, democratic discussion on issues requiring expertise such as this. My gunsmith is on the committee! That is what I call a direct contact surface to the political process :cool: .

But to silently wipe such an organ from the system... :what: :evil: :cuss:
 
Please post links to articles. Why is that so hard to understand?


I want to use this info on another forum right now, but unless it's linked from a credible source, it will not be belived.
 
patent,

I guess I was rude, sorry about that. I get frustrated sometimes with this when it happens. Just keep in mind that anything printed on the WWW is suspect, sources are allways a good idea.

Thank you for posting the link.
 
Just keep in mind that anything printed on the WWW is suspect, sources are allways a good idea.
No disagreement, I'll be better about posting the link next time.
 
Obviously there are plenty of intelligent discerning people left in the UK
I don't know about 'plenty'. The real question about intelligent discerning people in the UK is, "Are there enough?"

So far, it seems there are not.
 
QuarterBoreGunner

quote:He said he was worried about the type of guns being used, including conventional gas cartridge weapons, converted replicas, and reactivated guns.

I'm not sure I understand this sentence; is he referring to air pistols and zip guns? Does the UK have a plethora of ‘deactivated’ firearms? What would be the point other than keeping the ‘Ye Olde Grouse Gunne’ as a wall hanger?

I don't know how many there are, but it is legal over here to own or trade in weapons that have been rendered inoperable.

I don't know of any great reason for wanting one[1], although I suppose some people might just want a "real gun", even if it did not actually work.

(Conversely, I've heard anti-gun campaigners say that if anyone wants to keep a "historical" weapon for , it should be deactivated. "Because if you just want it for historical reasons, you don't need it to actually work").


[1] Unless you are a criminal[2] who wants to use it to threaten someone[3], or have it reactivated[4] so you can use it as a normal gun.

[2] Or an otherwise law-abiding person who wants to do that for good reasons, although you would become a criminal by doing so.

[3] There was a recently case where an old man and his son were arrested for selling deactivated weapons, including full-auto AK47s, along with instructions for reactivating them. I think they've been put away for quite some time[5].

[4] Which is why there are moves to make them illegal too.

[5] Quite rightly, IMO. While I think decent people ought to be able to buy these legally, these guys were knowingly supplying gangsters and terrorists. As you say, "When guns are outlawed, only outlaws have guns", and they were just ensuring that the outlaws were much better armed than the public (and the police).

[6] I think my footnotes have got a bit mixed up, and I'm too tired to sort them out.:eek:
 
iapetus- don't worry. I think I got the gist of your statement. Deactivated? Interesting. And I suppose there must be a very long and complicated process that must be followed to have a firearm qualify as 'deactivated'?

Who knew?
 
Probably, but I don't know the details.

I tried looking on the Home Office website, but couldn't find any answers.
 
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