Toy guns

[Doug.38PR]

When you get toy guns for your little boys, do you try to make it look good for them by cutting out or off that stupid red plug looking thing on the end (they used to be down the barrel now they are all over the muzzel and look ugly) or repaint the gun black.

I understand toy manufacterors are reqired by federal law to make all these stupid modifications because of isolated incidents of people using toy guns to rob people (as though criminals aren't going to remove these modifications anyway ) or because of an isolated incident of a policeman shooting a child because he thought it was a real gun. The toy makers may be required to put those things on their products, but once it leaves the store, it's mine. No law says I have to keep it on there.

I remember back in the 80s I had all kinds of toy guns. The most they had if anything were those red things inside the muzzel and I took them off if if I was able.
The best were those two metal (not plastic) .45 cowboy guns that had paper caps come out of the top of the guns. Why shouldn't my children enjoy the same things I did

Would you remove these things from your little boy's toy gun? (I realize some states like maybe California might have laws that regulate your private lives and make you keep them on but assuming you don't live in such a state)

 

[Car Knocker]

What? Little girls can't have toy guns too?

 

[Rembrandt]

....I prefer pre-ban non-politically correct toy guns, with no orange thingy....

 

[bigun15]

Back in my days as an airsoft freak (before I came here for "real steel") it was widely said that the orange tips are a Federal law. Don't ask me to give you the exact word-of-law because I can't but I do know that's the way it is for airsoft. Whether or not that's the way it is for everything else I think so but it may not be.

 

[jhco50]

Yes, I would take them off if I wanted to. I had Fanner 50s with the little bullets and the greenie stickem caps. I loved those guns.

 

[jason10mm]

I think the red tip thing for airsoft guns are an US IMPORT requirement. I remember reading some airsoft sites that say they can ship a non red muzzle device to replace the red one.

I remember cutting out the red plug as a kid. But now with most toy guns in all sorts of neon colors, the red tip isn't so bad My favorite toy guns were the ones that looked like 75% size replicas of 1911s and M16s and used the bead caps that ejected the used cap when you fired the next shot. Looked like shell casings and always let you see where the best battles were afterwards

If airsoft existed back when I was a kid we would have been all over it. Those things DEFINITELY need a red tip, IMHO, since they can look very real. Not so much because of the cops, but just for the well-being of passing motorists, etc.

Ona side note, I have heard of criminals painting REAL guns with a red tip to try and fool passerbys if the gun is accidentally exposed.

 

[mljdeckard]

There are no toy guns in my home. My kids understand, guns aren't toys. The only exceptions to this are say, water guns which bear no resemblence to real guns.

 

[GEM]

About twenty years ago, I bought my daughter a very realistic electronic water gun that looked like a Beretta 9 mm. It made shooting noises as you pulled the trigger. We used to run around outside our apartment in the common lawn area and shoot each other.

Good thing, the THR commandos weren't there - they probably would have killed me.

I think this is trivia - so what. You want to get excited about the government and rights - there are so many more important things.

I'd leave it on and not feel like I violated the sanctity of the RKBA.

 

[Deer Hunter]

I'm seeing this more often. Toy guns are being taken off the shelves. In fact, my mother (knowing I'm a gun nut) bought me a pair of single action revolver toys (That shot DA, interestingly enough) as a joke. She told me "Take them, they're a lot harder to find than the real thing."

 

[Justin]

As a kid, I just spraypainted them.

 

[halvey]

There are no toy guns in my home. My kids understand, guns aren't toys. The only exceptions to this are say, water guns which bear no resemblence to real guns.

I agree with this totally. I've thought long and hard about this issue, and won't allow "toy" guns in the house.

Kids are sponges and soak up everything you say or do. IMO, teaching a kid to point a gun, real or not, at another person is irresponsible.

http://www.thefiringline.com/Misc/safetyrules.html
RULE II: NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY

And I know most will disagree with me, and say "but it's just a toy" - but lines are not clear in a kids mind.

Cutting off the orange piece is simply stupid. If they were to encounter a LEO or heck a permit holder, how can they tell if the gun is real or not?

 

[Shawn Dodson]

A review of Federal Toy Gun Law (15 USC § 5001) and its implementing regulations (15 CFR § 1150) shows it preempts state & local laws. While federal law does not prohibit possession of a toy gun with no markings, it does prohibit *transportation*.

I suggest you also check state and local "toy gun" laws that go beyond federal law.

 

[mmike87]

I think it's a bad idea to remove these devices - not from a politically correct standpoint but just safety. Officers HAVE shot kids when they mistook their toy guns for real.

As for "no toy guns" folks - that's a personal choice parents have the right to make for their kids. My son knows the difference between a toy gun and a real one, and that comes through education. Just as he knows the difference a real "anything else" and a toy.

 

[Hoppy590]

man this tread makes me miss my old 38 revolver cap gun. something along the lines of a S&W model 36. i also had a M9 that shot out the spent cap. but the reliability of the wheel gun always won out in cap wars.

i understand those who say they dont want thier children to mistake a real gun for a toy. and you said it right, a gun is not a toy. but its not something to be afraid of. its a tool only as safer as the person holding it.

if your kid wanted to be a pirate or a ninja for holloween. are you not gunna let him have a plastic sword cause your afraid he wont be able to tell the differance between it and a large bread knife?

 

[SteveS]

My daughter has several toay guns and understands that there is a difference between toy guns and real guns. I had the same experience as a child and was able to behave in a safe manner around real guns.

I would certainly never tell others how to raise their children, but I see no reason that a child is incapable of understanding the difference and behaving appropriately. Many of us had toy guns as children and played with them. Do you think this had a negative effect on your gun safety skills? My daughter leaves her dolls on the floor sometimes and I don't think that this represents her future parenting skills.

 

[CNYCacher]

Nice analogy

My daughter leaves her dolls on the floor sometimes and I don't think that this represents her future parenting skills.

If you collected real live babies and kept them in your home where your daughter might come upon them before she reaches the age where she will undoubedly be adult enough to handle babies safely, you might feel differently.

 

[mete]

As a kid I never had a problem distinguishing between real and toy guns -at one time I had both ! Today the BGs sometimes paint real guns to look like toys and toy guns to look like real ones !!! So the whole thing is a moot point.

 

[Zero_DgZ]

Back in my days as an airsoft freak (before I came here for "real steel") it was widely said that the orange tips are a Federal law. Don't ask me to give you the exact word-of-law because I can't but I do know that's the way it is for airsoft. Whether or not that's the way it is for everything else I think so but it may not be.

I have argued on Arnie's forum, among other places, until I was blue in the face over this concept. Airsofters are nearly as bad as paintballers are with their propensity to sit there with their fingers in their ears and tell you the sky is purple because somebody else said it a while ago, everybody says it now, and therefore it must be true. Or else.

Usually this devolved into somebody with a little union jack under their username trying to tell me how American law worked. But I digress.

Excepting local law or statute which you are probably likely to find in places like California, New York, &c., the "toy gun" orange tip requirement is only valid as far as federal law ever is - That is, it applies to import and interstate commerce.

I have been to airsoft shops who apparently all buy the same stickers from some distributor or another that they put on their counters. They have some strongly worded nonsense about how federal law prohibits the removal of the orange tips on the products they sell under pain of taking a broomstick up the behind in prison or something equally silly. They put them there because they're tired of people asking how to take the orange tips off, I guess. I've quit arguing with them over it because the facts mean nothing to some people.

The text of the federal law makes the following provisions:

- All toy guns imported into the United States must be 'permanently' fitted with a red or blaze orange muzzle identifying them as such. The orange part must be at least one centimeter (if I remember correctly) down the muzzle.

- No state or local municipality may pass a law exempting this; E.g. Wyoming can't flip the feds the bird by declaring that toy guns impored into their state do not require the orange tip.

And that's it. There is nothing in there about removing the tip yourself later, or even removing the tip at all. It simply says that when they show up in the boat from China they have to have the orange tips. Afterwards you're free to do whatever you like to them. Me, I replaced the flash hider on my MP5 with a threaded one that was not orange; The tip on my WE 1911 fell off of its own accord ('permanently attached,' ha!), and my Glock has since had a barrel replacement and a paint job.

So it goes.

The text of the law is here, if you're interested.

 

[Doug.38PR]

And I know most will disagree with me, and say "but it's just a toy" - but lines are not clear in a kids mind.

It was clear in my mind.

About twenty years ago, I bought my daughter a very realistic electronic water gun that looked like a Beretta 9 mm. It made shooting noises as you pulled the trigger. We used to run around outside our apartment in the common lawn area and shoot each other.

That would be an Entertech electronic water pistol. I had one of those just like that only it was, I think, called an AK Centerfire sub machinegun. No red tip or anything. In fact, I remember their commercial theme going something like this: "THE LOOK!, THE FEEL!, THE SOUND!, SO REAL!" *Machinegun sound effects spelling out the word E-N-T-E-R-T-E-C-H* Had all kinds of gun for that. I had a friend who had the Berretta version and the Waterhawk submachine gun . Lots of us had those Entertech guns of one kind or another. They were great. The commerical showed their whole lineup of arms with boys at war in the neighborhood (Pre-videogame addiction days When the sounds of summer ruled instead of the sounds of Super Mario Bros. )
Sample of Entertech toys:
http://www.virtualtoychest.com/entertechsquirtguns/entertechsquirtguns.html

 

[halvey]

if your kid wanted to be a pirate or a ninja for holloween. are you not gunna let him have a plastic sword cause your afraid he wont be able to tell the differance between it and a large bread knife?

If your kid was "stabbing" others with the fake sword, no problem right? Let them, it's only a toy right?

See, this is what scares me about you guys. You don't get it. It's about conditioning. If you allow a kid to point and shoot a toy gun, they are conditioned to point and shoot at people. Do you really want that?

I'd have no problems with a "toy gun" used for trigger control or for practice shooting like a dart gun. You are starting down a slippery path. It's about gun handling skills. How many times have you been swept or a gun pointed at you and the guy says "don't worry, its not loaded."

Or how many times have you been shot by a bb gun "because its not a REAL gun?"

It was clear in my mind.

This from a man who wants to cut the orange tips off toy guns and give them to his kids.

 

[Master Blaster]

The orange tip on a toy gun is just like the tag on your mattress.

If you take it off the Ninjas will rappel out of helicopters onto your roof at 3:00 am, when the redtip/ label alarm goes off at Federal Ninja HQ, and your house lights up on the GPS map.

So step back from that red tip/ mattress label or ELSE.

AT my house we have a real car in the garage, so I dont allow my children to play with toy cars. I realized the importance of this when my son ran the dog, and a row of toy soldiers over with a hotwheel, after all one day he will drive a real car and I dont want him running over pedestrians when he does.

You cant childproof a gun, so Please gunproof your children.

I am raising two very fine and intelligent children ages 7 and 9 we have toy guns and real guns they are well aware of the difference. I have come to realize that they both have a human brain which is capable of making very fine distinctions based upon logic and learning from the good example I provide.

 

[GEM]

When I was a kid, I had lots of toy guns - wish I kept them.

My favorites, IIRC:

1. A Mattel SAA Colt where you stuck caps on the rounds.
2. A double barreled flintlock pistol
3. A Thompson - pull the bolt and it made full auto sounds.
4. A full size 1911 in white plastic that fired little plastic pellets. I guess the white was for PC then. Too many real 1911s around.
5. A Daisy - of course.
6. A two barrelled Sharps derringerish gun with a plastic knife.

I am much old that the red tip wave. However, now I have a Beretta 380 cap gun clone - in blue. Bought it for a class to have a nonfiring thingee for hand to hand. Also, one of those P22 clear clones that fire airsoft rounds - you have to rack it each time but it is fun and accurate in the house. I also used it to nonlethally chase away some offending but pooping birdies. I also used it as a BUG in some real FOF and when shot in the arm with round (sim), used the other hand to bounce a ball off the face mask of my attacker.

 

[halvey]

When I was a kid, I had lots of toy guns - wish I kept them.
5. A Daisy - of course.

BB gun or toy Daisy?

AT my house we have a real car in the garage, so I dont allow my children to play with toy cars.

So when they ride their bikes (not real vehicles) on the road, they don't have to worry right? I mean, no harm since a bike isn't a real vehicle?

How about this. You can let your kids watch violent movies, or heck adult movies for that matter because, well, it's not real. They should be able to tell the difference right?

I hope some of the parents will chime in. It's obvious their children are signing on and posting under their parents user names on THR.

 

[Doug.38PR]

If your kid was "stabbing" others with the fake sword, no problem right? Let them, it's only a toy right?

See, this is what scares me about you guys. You don't get it. It's about conditioning. If you allow a kid to point and shoot a toy gun, they are conditioned to point and shoot at people. Do you really want that?

I'd have no problems with a "toy gun" used for trigger control or for practice shooting like a dart gun. You are starting down a slippery path. It's about gun handling skills. How many times have you been swept or a gun pointed at you and the guy says "don't worry, its not loaded."

Or how many times have you been shot by a bb gun "because its not a REAL gun?"

BB gun is a real gun. That is it is something that can shoot a projectile and harm someone. Hence it is dangerous. It was the first real shooting device that I was given responsibility with. I was told and was understood that it was NOT like my toy guns. This was very clear in my mind.

Toy knives? Yes we stabbed each other with them all the time. We'd jump in the pool with them with the hilt in our mouths and have an underwater knife fight. We understood that this would not puncture someone's skin and cause them to bleed to death.

Children are smarter than you give them credit for. They know the difference between fantasy and reality. Why? 1) Common sense, 2) you interact with them and tell them.

This from a man who wants to cut the orange tips off toy guns and give them to his kids

Um....yes. As stated, as a boy the difference between real and fake guns was very clear in my mind.

I would have no problem cutting the tips off toy guns and giving it to my children.

 

[halvey]

BB gun is a real gun.

Some don't think so.

4. A full size 1911 in white plastic that fired little plastic pellets.

GEM thinks these are toys.

I would have no problem cutting the tips off toy guns and giving it to my children.

Let me ask you this. Would your kids know the difference? If they've never had a toy gun without the orange tips before, they wouldn't. Cutting the tips is for your own ego. When a neighbor calls the cops and says kids are "running around with guns" and a LEO shows up and draws on your kids, you may think differently. All for your own ego.

Children are smarter than you give them credit for. They know the difference between fantasy and reality. Why? 1) Common sense, 2) you interact with them and tell them.

You would let them watch violent gory movies and softcore porn then? It's "fake". It's "not real".