trade goods

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Gasoline, propane, batteries, seasoned firewood, ammo, water and ability to purify, dry food, canned food, medicines, plastic tarps, bicycles, Oxy/Ace, arc, and thermite.

Silver? Id rather have the copper wire. Possibly small gold coins if anything. Silver weighs too much and can not be authicated easliy enough. (~2 oz Au = $700 vs. ~95 oz Ag = $700)
 
I'm curious. There have been several comments about silver, gold, and paper money. Yes, silver and gold have some "solid" use (industrial and jewelry), but not for average people. It's value is simply agreed upon. Same as paper money. If things got tough for awhile, why would silver or gold have any more value to the average person than paper money? If people are willing to use it (paper money)as a medium of exchange, what's the difference? I'm just trying to understand the difference. Am I missing something?
 
Paper money is a promissory note from the issuing bank or government. Theoretically, every dollar you have is a IOU that the US government will pay back. Pay in what? More dollars; the currency is backed by the "full faith and credit" of the US government. Now if that credit is lost, then the currency becomes useless -- people will no longer accept that their paper dollars are worth any value, since they can only be redeemed for more paper.

It would seem gold and silver are inexorably tied to humanity; nearly every society has come to associate them with wealth. Gold and silver are fiduiciary standards whose value comes from the universally shared belief that they are somehow intrinsically valuable.
 
So either gold/silver, or paper money are all basically abstract representations of value for average people, just the "solid feeling" abstract is perceived to have more value.

I guess I'm still feeling like either are abstract enough that they should serve the purpose. I guess I'm not in the true TEOTWAWKI camp. I think people will continue to use paper money. I see a depression or natural disaster as being possible, but not the full blown "END" that some do. Unless the Zombies make their move.
 
Maybe I should elaborate on the copper wire. If you want to rig any sort of electrical generator or network or whatever (water wheels and the like, low-tech) to run a few essential goodies, you'll need wiring.
 
DesertEagle 613-
I wouldn't worry about copper wire. Whether the SHTF or not, the copper loop PSTN (phone network) is going to be VERY under-used in 10 years. Of course, if the SHTF, the phones won't work at all and it is all there for the taking.

Not that I'm advocating anyone stripping wire from poles or conduits. But it could be done. I've no idea if the gauge is sufficient for the purposes you envision.
 
Tobacco!! People will do ANYTHING to get thier drugs. Oh yeah, and also some drugs, like OTC stuff, asprin, bandages and stuff like that will be worth it's weight in gold.
 
22lr is the currancy of choice after SHTF.

Nah, .308 and .223 will be the baseline currency. .22 will be used to make change.

Heck, you could set up a whole economic system based on the value of 1, 5, or 10 loaded rounds of various calibers.
 
As far as gold, silver, and paper currency goes, one of these three is much more abstract in value than the others. Like it has been said by others, precious metals have always had vaue in human society. maybe because it is rare and a relatively high value is put on a relatively small amount of material. Paper currency is valuable when you have a cohesive society that agrees to use it, beut when the society falls apart, cash become worthless. If you don't believe this, take a look at what has happened to Russian, some south American, and Mexican currencies in the last 10 years or so. Some of these currencies have become almost worthless, and would be completely worthless if carried across the border to a more stabile nation. If I remember my history correctly, the CSA printed greenbacks during the civil war, which became absolutely worthless at the end of the war. If a person had gold, they could easily carry it across a border and trade it for something of equal value in any country that was stabile. Gold is pretty much the ultimate in portable wealth, barring countries where it is illegal for common folk from owning gold.
 
Along with ammo, it might not be a bad idea to reserve a bundle of small musical instruments & accessories like harmonicas, penny whistles, guitar strings, reeds.
 
Cracked Butt

What countries don't allow citizens to own gold? Is it a communist thing or is it in countries other than China, N. Korea, etc.?
 
"As far as gold, silver, and paper currency goes, one of these three is much more abstract in value than the others...... Paper currency is valuable when you have a cohesive society that agrees to use it, beut when the society falls apart, cash become worthless. If you don't believe this, take a look at what has happened to Russian, some south American, and Mexican currencies in the last 10 years or so. Some of these currencies have become almost worthless, and would be completely worthless if carried across the border to a more stabile nation."



I the United States became economically unstable, and our currency became worthless, I can't figure out what border we could cross that would have a more stable economy. Canada would likely be in about the same position we would be. If the US economy colapsed for any reason, I wouldn't go anywhere near Mexico with less than an expeditionary force. The examples cited above are valid in thier context, but I don't think they translate well to the situaion of the US economy collapsing. Their currency was worthless because of political issues, and there were more stable economies and governments in existance. If the US economy or political system collapsed, it would more likely be in a worldwide collapse. Our currency has gennerally always been accepted worldwide, and besides we are talking hometown USA here, not world trade to be able to get groceries. I just don't see the scenario that is so popular of "complete upheaval" or a "Mad Max" sort of thing for years on end. People tend to work to get things back to a tolerable local economy when things get difficult. The rural areas of this country during the deppresion had little cash, but had a lot of trade and self providing people. The "Sarejevo Survival Guide" indicated that paper money was acceptable, and a local economy developed that adapted to peoples needs at the time and place.





"If I remember my history correctly, the CSA printed greenbacks during the civil war, which became absolutely worthless at the end of the war. If a person had gold, they could easily carry it across a border and trade it for something of equal value in any country that was stabile. Gold is pretty much the ultimate in portable wealth, ....."


The CSA reference isn't a good example, they were a defeated government in a civil war. As mentioned above, if our economy is in collapse, I'm not sure where anyone could cross a border and find a better economy. Our economy is tied to the world economy, and our closest neighbors will be in the same situation as we are. We are also a driving force in the world economy, and certainly in area that includes Mexico and Canada. Any "currency" has to be agreed upon by both trading parties. In local economies, I seriously doubt people will abandon paper money. They may not take checks or cedit cards tho.


Maybe I just don't have the right "TEOTWAWKI" gene to play. I'm all for being prepared for difficult times or situations, but I haven't heard a compelling argument for a true TEOTWAWKI scenario. It's fun to talk about. Most sound like hollywood scripts, but not very realistic. Sorry for being a wet blanket. Just how I see it.
 
Tabasco!

The ultimate trade good. If the comet hits and the rest of the population is reduced to eating UN relief rations or Alpo or the neighbors cat, the guy who has a thousand mini bottles of Tabasco is going to become rich.

:D
 
If things got tough for awhile, why would silver or gold have any more value to the average person than paper money?

They have held there value for thousands of years through the rise and fall of civilizations. Chances are really good that they will continue to hold there value regardless of what happens to any single or group of goverments.
 
Trade goods?
Got Guns?
While that spare second or third sks or pump-shotgun might be just too much for your crew. There is someout there that will trade any thing for it when the SHTF. Oh yes 12guage buckshot round are very trade worthy. No mater what your prefered rifle caliber is, almost everyone gots few 12guages around
 
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