trade goods

[Ozendorph]

If studies of ancient and recent history tell us anything, it's that people are going to seek entertainment once their bare necessities are met. If we're talking about a fairly low-tech society, this will come the form of altering their state of consciousness.

Now, whether this is your bag or not, a quick glance of EVERY known civilization will show they had something they smoked, chewed, or drank to pass the time. In the absence of TV, no pop music, and with no new Brad Pitt blockbusters on the horizon, I imagine people are going to be looking for a diversion.

A guy with a still or a green thumb isn't going to be hurting for TP, band-aids, or much else. At least here in CA anyway, lol.

 

[black bear]

Dave R,
Same here in N. Y., ammo was gone from stores and almost all rifles and shotguns.
Now, guys. about TP, maybe we have to adopt some customs from some Asian societies that don't use TP at all and use the left hand and water.
They also eat with one hand, the right.
I have a friend that travel extensively in the poor hamlets of India and he say this is a fact.
Just don't collect too much toilet paper just in case we alter our ways!!
black bear

 

[Ozendorph]

That custom doesn't fly with us southpaws. TP or death!

 

[Caliburn]

Forget gold

You want silver! It's multi purpose - melts into bullets in event of werewolf armageddon, or can be formed into crosses in case TEOTWAKI is brought about by vampires. Anyone got any anti-zombie ideas? At least they could melt the silver into silverware and feast upon you more refined-like.

In the real world though I'm not worried about Mad Max stuff. What does interest me woud be a recession or serious rationing like during W W 2. Country folks made do during the Depression, but how did city folks survive? You can't grow food or raise chickens if you're living under a bridge. What if gas hits $5 a gallon (like it is in Europe) or $10?

For a serious look at a real Mad Max scenario, check out the Sarajevo Survival Guide for hints on how to survive in a city under seige. One tip: plastic sheeting was in short supply and extremely valuable for replacing windows.
http://www.friends-partners.org/bosnia/surintro.html

 

[abaddon]

for those who say they'll be able to brew alcohol...

Just where do you think you'll get the yeast from? The stuff I get from the brewery store only lasts about 3 months when refrigerated. If you get it from the air you run into sanitation issues and even when it works it will take a lot longer.

 

[NMshooter]

Keep in mind the high tech stuff will still be useful (unless you have a "Lights Out" type scenario), and that the means of generating electricity will increase in value as its availability decreases, and you will do all right.

If you and your friends can provide useful products and services life will definitely be easier for everyone in the area.

Not just your secret stash of trade goods but new production items, or services that were normally provided by folks not living in the area.

But if I was going to keep some items around for trading materials, I think I would want a few sets of basic hand tools to start. Some camp stoves and lanterns might not hurt, either.

Matter of fact, you could open your own hardware store right now and already be in the business if that interests you...

 

[Khaotic]

Burt's nailed a good one.

Not only the knowhow to repair, maintain and even build machinery, but also the technical manuals and teaching skills to train others would be by far more valuable than anything else I could carry, cause it's mostly knowledge, and that doesn't weigh anything.

Even in a power-out situation, folks will still use generators for various things as long as there is fuel, and with folks who can make biodiesel, and can convert to alcohol fuels, there's gonna be fuel.

So the guy who can fix your busted generator can prettymuch name his price.
And yes, imma small-engine gearhead, in case no one figured that out already.

-K

 

[salem shooter]

YES, Khaotic, Knowedge is power!
Did someone say SILVER, I took a pic of some of my collection, could not figure out how to post it, so I placed the pic on my ATV website:
http://www.msnusers.com/atvridingthetrails/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=748
100 oz bar = about $750.00, 50 oz = $400.00, 10 oz =$80.00, 1 oz coin = $8,
Silver sell for current silver price per ounce (oz) plus minting pemium.
silver coins (1/2, 1/4, 1/10 b4 1964)
I dont know about the melting down into bullets to kill vampires part...

 

[Caliburn]

With a handle like "salem shooter" you should know all about shooting vampires and witches and other undeadies. With a silver collection like that you could melt it down into cannon balls!


Ozendorph said people will be looking for distractions if electricity goes down. True, but instead of alcohol and stuff, a good old fashined singer or band would be popular too. (old fashioned meaning no electic guitars or keyboards or bulky drum sets) People have been entertained by singers, musicians and dancers for thousands of years, and they've been willing to pay (food or money) for the entertainment. Brush up on your kazoo and doing the macarena!

 

[salem shooter]

Salem, Mass and the 17th century whitch trials are a half a counrty away from Salem Township, Minnesota where I come from.
Every once in a while I will stop over at a coin shop in Rochester and buy what they call silver scrap coins (no value beyond the silver in the coin)
In other words, not pretty enough to bring a BIG premium...
IF ???? HITS THE FAN, YOU ACTUALLY THINK YOU WILL GET MORE MONEY FOR A SILVER DOLLAR THAT LOOKS LIKE IT WAS MADE YESTERDAY?
Buy when silver prices are close to the $5 mark per ounce.
Current price: $7.24
http://www.kitco.com/charts/livesilver.html
If you decide to buy 100 oz bars- they are spot price + $50 = $774.00
10 oz bars- spot price + $20 = $92.40
1 oz coins- spot price + $1 = $8.24
check out ebay what these idiot are paying: (plus shipping price)
http://search.ebay.com/silver-100-oz_W0QQsojsZ1QQfromZR40
10oz bars:
http://search.ebay.com/10-oz-silver-bars_W0QQsojsZ1QQfromZR40

 

[Morgan]

Salem Shooter,

If the defecation impacts the oscillation, most won't give a rat's ass about silver.

Water (and purification equipment), food, shelter, clothing, fuel, weapons & ammo, entertainment/vice items, etc., yes. In a Mad Max world, you could offer me all the gold in Fort Knox, and I wouldn't give you anything.

 

[salem shooter]

With All Do Respect!

Well Morgan, I am Very well suppilied in my rural setting with my own water well, septic, excellent 90 acres of woods for hunting, 110 acres to plant, ENOUGH ammo, most evil black weapons available, 2 4x4 trucks, 2 ATV's, 2 generators (one being 110/220) 2 campers (1 big, 1 small) I try to go camping on my weekends, generators during the day- charging up the marine batteries weekly for power inverters usage during the night- meaning listening to tunes or watching the movies... Plenty of dead trees for fire wood, cement blocks and an old oven shelf for cooking plus the old colman stoves and white gas, and another that takes 1LB propane tanks and lanterns for the same... More camping stuff too numerous to mention...
With all do respect...
What really gets me going is the CITY FOLK with their tiny front yard and maybe a little bit bigger fenced in back yard coming out to the country and trespassing now, I could imagine what it would be like if "SHTF/TEOTWAWKI should happen...

YES, SILVER will have value as a trade value for my extra's, one thing is for sure, just like in the 19th century, unknown traders will be escorted on the property...

I just thought of another item to invest in... a food dehydrater, excellent for beef, deer, turkey, fruits and other stuff so it will last longer.

 

[TrapperReady]

Chocolate bars and stockings?

Worked for Dad during WWII. And I think we can agree that in war-torn 1944 Europe, the stuff had most definitely hit the fan.

 

[Morgan]

Salem, sounds like you're quite well prepared for just about anything. If there is no functional economy, pretty much any of your goods would be valuable - except the silver.

If/once an economy redeveloped, the silver should resume it's value. It would probably be much better than greenbacks.

 

[Balog]

In almost every known civilization in recorded history gold, silver, and gemstones have been accorded a high value. We may think this is odd or foolish, but it is true.

If the situation is so bad that they are deemed worthless, the situation is undoubtedly so bad that barter is unlikely.

 

[Bear Gulch]

Hand tools, garden seed (non hybrids), otc meds, ammo, coffee, 1 ton of mosins, mausers and cheap combloc hand guns, nails, screws, machine parts.

 

[Rabid Rabbit]

"Just where do you think you'll get the yeast from?"

Wild yeast like the Belgium brewer’s use, develop yeast from existing supplies, heck use some bread yeast. Sure it may not always have the same flavor as what you are buying now but they were brewing beer and making wine long before anybody had a clue about yeast. The only reason I don't do my own yeast is time and consistency.

I'd like to think that with a reasonable cross section of the population we'd be at a mid to late 19th tech level in a couple years.

 

[DesertEagle613]

Copper wire. Lots and lots of copper wire.

(Given how many people's lists overlapped, and that nobody mentioned copper wire, you should make a killing!)

 

[Farnham]

Three days ago I saw a rig that'd haul that tanker, you want to get out of here, you talk to me.

I know how to drive a truck!

 

[Dave R]

People have been entertained by singers, musicians and dancers for thousands of years, and they've been willing to pay (food or money) for the entertainment.

Whew! I can stop stockpiling ammo. I'm set then. I have an upright bass. And a good bass player can always find a gig...

 

[TrapperReady]

I have an upright bass. And a good bass player can always find a gig...

I play the banjo badly enough that people will gladly pay me just to stop playing.

 

[The_Antibubba]

RWC-I'm just about to start "1634". I highly recommend this series.

Ozendorph-For bonus points, can you name the ONLY known human culture to have no intoxicants?

 

[rwc]

Antibubba - glad you like it.
FYI - S.M. Stirling has an alternate history series starting with "Island in the Sea of Time" where they have to downshift their technology and then slowly bring it back up as they develop industrial capacity. Some interesting firearms choices are made along the way. Also, a fair amount of thought went into what a small group of people would have to do to survive and flourish.

 

[mr.trooper]

Warlords anyone?

If you can muster a significant amount of your Kin and arm them, then you'l be king of the world no mater what youv got stockpiled. Kill eveory animal you see: Rats, crows, songbirds, coons, possums, Fish, skunks, coyotes, deer, Stray Dogs / Cats. This will give you the food base to feed your family...and whatever trust worthy followers you can get along the way.

PEACE through full stomachs and supperior firepower

 

[Gifted]

Mr. trooper, with almost everybody hunting rather than just a few, how long do you think game will last?