traded for old rifle need help identifying

[Cosmoline]

I don't see how it could be 7.62 NATO since that conversion would have required cutting the barrel down a considerable extent.

If the issue is the Finnish throat, then yeah if you drop a cartridge into the chamber (with the bolt removed of course) and it stops short, then you may well have the bullet jamming into the lands. If it drops in all the way with the rim fully seated with no pressure, then the bullet is not jammed in a short throat. But that doesn't address the .311" vs. 308" difference. If you fire .311" surplus you'll still be swaging the bullet down a bit under pressure. It's not a huge difference, but it is enough to increase stress and wear. The rifle is a nice and rare enough piece to just not do it.

If you really want to get shooting and use surplus 54R, you can always swap with someone who has a post-Winter-war Finn such as an M39. But you'd be trading down.

 

[butcherboy]

cosmoline: or anyone else who can be of help

"Also, do you see any other letters like an "A" or "B" or "C" around the receiver? It's possible the owner just never had it updated to "D" bore. He kept his old barrel when everyone else got the new ones, so he may have been stubborn even by Finnish standards."

i just went through the whole gun and found all the markings:

35(s)T Left side of receiver
-S- Right side of reciever
590408 Right side of reciever
M-> On rear of next to screw
74 Behind Front sight
MARA--- (underneath) WE----- (cant read the -)On Barrel 4 inches behind muzzle

( how it appears on top looking down)
(S) (Gear)
SA underlined
SK.Y.
54041
1938
54041

thats all of them.

 

[Gord]

You have no idea how much it warms my heart to see an "I rescued a rare Mosin from a guy and I want to do right by it" thread, contrasted with the usual "I got a rare Mosin from this guy and he cut it down and spraypainted the stock and how do I make it take FAL mags???" offerings...

 

[butcherboy]

Marking on front of barrel:

MARATHON PROD. INC.
WETH, CT. FINLAND

 

[Cosmoline]

With no letter code, I would assume that it's still in its original configuration for light ball. Unless a chamber cast says otherwise that's the only safe assumption.

590408 Right side of reciever

Are you certain that isn't an S90408? That should be a Civil Guard district number, and they didn't go as high as "5" in the six digits. If it is S90408 then per Lapin's Third Edition Revised it was issued to a Civil Guardsman in Vaasa.

http://www.mosinnagant.net/finland/Finnish-CG-numbers.asp

That last marking on the front of the barrel is the importer as you likely know.

 

[butcherboy]

cosmoline: S 90408.

 

[butcherboy]

just looked up the numbers , appears to be Vassa Finland.

does that increase the likely hood that it was used in combat. ( i hope so that would be a plus in the cool factor for me!)

 

[butcherboy]

just looked up the numbers , appears to be Vassa Finland.

does that increase the likely hood that it was used in combat. ( i hope so that would be a plus in the cool factor for me!)

 

[Cosmoline]

The Civil Guard saw a lot of front-line action in the Winter War and later during its revival in the Continuation War. Per capita a huge percentage of Finnish soldiers fought in 1939-1945, because the demands were so great and the population so small. Also, the front lines in 1939-40 stretched across the entire frontier. So it's a fair bet the rifle did its share of combat. The chances are vastly greater than, say, with a Garand, Enfield or even Soviet Mosin since those were much, much larger military forces where only a small fraction of the men (and their rifles) served on the front lines. Finland was different.

 

[butcherboy]

cosmoline: or anyone else who might be interested:

my local gunsmith had this to say( opinions please)
All Finnish manufactured, or purchased 7.62X53 r rifle barrels before 1939 were made to fire the Finnish S-1 bullet, [that's all they made at that time]. The S-1 bullet was a copy of the Russian Model 1908 hollow base bullet, EXCEPT the normal bullet diameter was 0.308".
If your Finnish military rifle has a worn, pitted bore their maybe no problem. However if the bore is mint, and no wear, you can have pressure problems with the cheap Com-bloc surplus ammo.

mine is not mint, minor wear. thanks.

 

[Cosmoline]

Not all of them. There were also "A" and "F" chamberings. But in this case I think you're OK as long as you don't cram a 180 or 200 grain slug into the rifling. That's what can really spike pressures.

One thing springs to mind--there's a lot of Polish hollow base light ball on the market now for a good price. It's about .309" or so and is pretty close to the old Finnish light ball. Might work really good.

 

[butcherboy]

cosmoline: i just ordered Surplus Polish 7.62x54R ammunition from AIMsurplus. i know its cheaper to buy in bulk but im testing ammo brands so i only bought 30 rds. once i find one i/gun likes i'll buy in bulk.

Details:Features a 147grn full bi-metal jacketed bullet, lacquered steel case, and corrosive berdan primer.

 

[Cosmoline]

That looks like the right stuff. There are other kinds of Polish which are more like standard Soviet light ball and would probably wear your bore, but the AIM stuff looks identical to the hollow base stuff I have. I just calipered my ammo and it's .308" with an expanding hollow base. I've been getting good results shooting it in my 1970 M39.

Those stripper clips it comes on are not the best. They tend to be too loose and let rounds slip off the tracks. If you have problems and want better ones, I'd suggest getting the Finnish steel ones. Most on the market now are repros, but some are original. I've had best results with the ones that are more banged up and in smaller batches, like these:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=196977440

 

[dustyplans]

Have your smith friend cast the chamber, right up to the leads of the rifleing. You can then determin the cartridge size by measurements. We used to use pewter for the chamber casts. did not hurt the rifle in any way...unless you slobbed the pewter while pouring the cast.