traded for old rifle need help identifying
- Thread starter butcherboy
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Cosmoline
Member
If you handload, you can pick up a set of 54R dies and some reloadable Lapua brass. Because the bore is narrower than other Mosins, you can reload using any .308" bullets, which broadens your selection. It may take some tweaking to find the sweet spot load, but to speed things up consult the handloaders section of the collector's forum.
soviet shooter
Member
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- Oct 19, 2010
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- 6
see if a 7.62x54 "snaps" on to the bolt face if it does color the casing with a permanent marker and attempt to chamber it it should chamber with little to no resistance the extract the round and look at the permanent marker is should be worn off at the shoulders and the neck among other areas
...... if it fails any of these steps seek someone with more then a box of casings and a permanent marker
its definitely a finnish mosin though
...... if it fails any of these steps seek someone with more then a box of casings and a permanent marker
its definitely a finnish mosin though
butcherboy
Member
after looking at all the sites you guys suggested i decide to check the stock. heres what i found:
2 piece stock,spliced together . also i removed the but plate and it appears to be solid wood, not laminate.
my friend is looking to see if he has any 7.62x54 laying around.
i did clean the bore again today and the rifling looks very deep or sharp. some alot of the furriness is gone. i have break cleaner ( clp) should i use that and see what it does, or just stick with good ol' #9.
thanks for all the help
2 piece stock,spliced together . also i removed the but plate and it appears to be solid wood, not laminate.
my friend is looking to see if he has any 7.62x54 laying around.
i did clean the bore again today and the rifling looks very deep or sharp. some alot of the furriness is gone. i have break cleaner ( clp) should i use that and see what it does, or just stick with good ol' #9.
thanks for all the help
Coal Dragger
member
You should get rid of that ungainly long stock and barrel. Get a good hacksaw and just cut both down to a more manageable 20" or so, then mount a red dot sight on it clamped to the rear sight base. Then go hunting with it!
Just kidding. Do none of the above except for maybe the last part.
Just kidding. Do none of the above except for maybe the last part.
butcherboy
Member
coal dragger:i just finished sawing the stock and barrel, how do i recrown the barrel? 
how would i go about clamping a red dot sight to it?
how would i go about clamping a red dot sight to it?
butcherboy
Member
also how do i use the rear sight for distances?
the guy also has a SY rifle with "schweiz industrie Gesellschraft Nevhausen" on the barrel. but he wont part with that one.its in rougher shape but the stock, bolt and reciever numbers all match. also the front sight screw is missing and the magazine latch doesnt close properly.
the guy also has a SY rifle with "schweiz industrie Gesellschraft Nevhausen" on the barrel. but he wont part with that one.its in rougher shape but the stock, bolt and reciever numbers all match. also the front sight screw is missing and the magazine latch doesnt close properly.
W L Johnson
Member
Even tho some people will stick their noses up at a two piece Mosin stock, the Finn's actually preferred the two piece because it was suppose to hold up better in the Finnish winter. Or so I have read.
Coal Dragger
member
Butcherboy,
I have found a great cheap way to re-crown the barrel is to go buy a good countersink drill bit, and just chuck it into a cordless drill and then grab your rifle and give the crown area a good hard kiss with that countersink bit. Works like a charm!
For the red dot sight I have had good luck with JB Weld, that stuff is so tough they should just make the whole rifle out of it.
I have found a great cheap way to re-crown the barrel is to go buy a good countersink drill bit, and just chuck it into a cordless drill and then grab your rifle and give the crown area a good hard kiss with that countersink bit. Works like a charm!
For the red dot sight I have had good luck with JB Weld, that stuff is so tough they should just make the whole rifle out of it.
Al Thompson
Moderator Emeritus
You guys forget about duct tape?
Coal Dragger
member
Good call, you'll need that to keep the upper stock on the lower stock after you cut off the front securing band!
Cosmoline
Member
Whoa. Red dot site? Duct tape? I don't think the OP is looking to cut this beauty up. I hope not.
It is a Finnish improved tangent sight, one of the finest ever made. You raise it up to shoot further out. The gradations are in meters.
It is a Finnish improved tangent sight, one of the finest ever made. You raise it up to shoot further out. The gradations are in meters.
Geeze....I dont think I'd take anyone's advice on what cal a rifle is that they havent handled. Go to a gunsmith. Ya mite not even get charged. And if you are, so what...it beats the hell out of getting the wrong free advice. Plus if you dont want to do that, you could "cerrosafe" the thing yourself (Brownells.com) and know for sure. Either way, its more cost effective to know "for sure" than have the thing blow up in your face. Also, you could "slug" the bbl, and mike up the lands and grooves for bore diameter.. We all learned this in 3rd semester up at Lassen College from a fella named Dunlap. Any way you go, you're gonna have to spend a few pesos. Penny wise, pound foolish. Safety always first.
gun addict
Member
hh, Shtr? IT's a Mosin, it's in 7.62x54R ............
butcherboy
Member
i jhave cleaned the bore with clp and #9.
is there a cleaner that would remove the salt and residue or would boiling hot water soaked patches work.
any help would be great this is my first surplus. thanks
is there a cleaner that would remove the salt and residue or would boiling hot water soaked patches work.
any help would be great this is my first surplus. thanks
gun addict
Member
i usually use my batch of "ed's red", they work great for everything. Also if you just could'nt get the nasties out of the bore take it to the range and clean it well afterward. I've had a few Enfields with pretty bad looking barrel that i took to the range with and afterward i was suprised by the shiny/clean barrel.
Make sure after you shoot corrosive ammo put some boiling water down the barrel first before cleaning, iot washes out the salf in the primer.
Mosins, next thing you know you'll have a dozen of them in your safe
Make sure after you shoot corrosive ammo put some boiling water down the barrel first before cleaning, iot washes out the salf in the primer.
Mosins, next thing you know you'll have a dozen of them in your safe
Cerrosafe
Cerrosafe is made by Bolton Metal Products (formerly Cerro Metal Products). You can visit their website at boltonmetalproducts.com or email them at [email protected] for help or to place an order. Good luck!
Cerrosafe is made by Bolton Metal Products (formerly Cerro Metal Products). You can visit their website at boltonmetalproducts.com or email them at [email protected] for help or to place an order. Good luck!
Vyacheslav
member
- Joined
- Sep 6, 2010
- Messages
- 196
you're right, nobody on this forum knows anything about guns and the chances of finding a mosin in x54r are pretty rare
butcherboy
Member
just finished soaking the bore. it came out great. i started
with hot soapy water
i ran it through 5 times than brushed and did this 3 times.
rinsed with hot 5 times and brushed. after the final rinse it looks
100% better. no longer fuzzy looking and i can see the rifle groves
and ridges. it shines too.
i did run dry patches through it also. after its dry should i clean it normally: solvent than oil.
with hot soapy water
i ran it through 5 times than brushed and did this 3 times.
rinsed with hot 5 times and brushed. after the final rinse it looks
100% better. no longer fuzzy looking and i can see the rifle groves
and ridges. it shines too.
i did run dry patches through it also. after its dry should i clean it normally: solvent than oil.
butcherboy
Member
M28-30 "D" stamp ?
i have been reading ( alot). i know the old guns were re bored and "d"stamped for the larger diamiter ( .311 rather than .308)
can anyone tell me (or send me a link) what year they stopped doing this? the info i found says the 1930's. mine was manufactured in 1938 and there is no "D"
i hope this makes sense? thanks for the help. ( i dont reload at the moment, im 24 and currently in college so money is a little tight, and cant afford to blow my face off with wrong ammo)
i have been reading ( alot). i know the old guns were re bored and "d"stamped for the larger diamiter ( .311 rather than .308)
can anyone tell me (or send me a link) what year they stopped doing this? the info i found says the 1930's. mine was manufactured in 1938 and there is no "D"
i hope this makes sense? thanks for the help. ( i dont reload at the moment, im 24 and currently in college so money is a little tight, and cant afford to blow my face off with wrong ammo)
Cosmoline
Member
I've seen a lot of Finn Mosins from the 40's that also have the "D" stamp on them.
Keep in mind that the stamp indicated an expansion of the CHAMBER THROAT for bigger Soviet slugs and (IIRC) the famous D-166 200 grain Finnish slug, not a total reboring. You should slug your bore to be sure, but as an early M28 SIG barrel, I would expect it to be about. 309" or .3085" That would not have changed with the D chamber.
Also, do you see any other letters like an "A" or "B" or "C" around the receiver? It's possible the owner just never had it updated to "D" bore. He kept his old barrel when everyone else got the new ones, so he may have been stubborn even by Finnish standards.
Here's what Tuco says on the subject:
http://mosinnagant.net/finland/finnfaq.asp
So my bet is with no "D" stamp, your 28-30, with its old barrel, was NOT updated to "D". A chamber casting will tell you for sure. The big issue is that the tighter chamber doesn't work so well with the Soviet surplus stock they captured in the Winter War.
Finding commercial ammo for this rifle, or surplus stock, is going to be less than easy. I would suggest seeking out the Ingman 150, which is .310" and should fit fine in the shorter throat. I would avoid Wolf or any eastblock rounds, particualrly the 180-203 grain rounds. Whatever you get, caliper the bullet and test the fit to make sure your ogive is not ramming into the throat.
Keep in mind you can handload the 54R with nothing more than a hand press ($20) and a hand primer, plus the usual components. The big cost is the good brass. Once equipped there would be no problems handloading with Lapua brass and keeping your ogive low. Load in the 148-160 grain range using .308" bullets. No shortage of those, so you're actually going to have a lot to choose from. Lee dies can be ordered with a .308" resizer die too. In fact they used to come with that standard. You might consider just setting this one aside till you can get set up for handloading. With some load testing and tweaking, you would likely be able to get it shooting true MOA. Or better. The M28-30 is one of the greatest military rifles ever made, and one of the most accurate. It's a neat one to have when some smartmouth makes a comment about pie plate commie rifles ;-)
Keep in mind that the stamp indicated an expansion of the CHAMBER THROAT for bigger Soviet slugs and (IIRC) the famous D-166 200 grain Finnish slug, not a total reboring. You should slug your bore to be sure, but as an early M28 SIG barrel, I would expect it to be about. 309" or .3085" That would not have changed with the D chamber.
Also, do you see any other letters like an "A" or "B" or "C" around the receiver? It's possible the owner just never had it updated to "D" bore. He kept his old barrel when everyone else got the new ones, so he may have been stubborn even by Finnish standards.
Here's what Tuco says on the subject:
http://mosinnagant.net/finland/finnfaq.asp
So my bet is with no "D" stamp, your 28-30, with its old barrel, was NOT updated to "D". A chamber casting will tell you for sure. The big issue is that the tighter chamber doesn't work so well with the Soviet surplus stock they captured in the Winter War.
Finding commercial ammo for this rifle, or surplus stock, is going to be less than easy. I would suggest seeking out the Ingman 150, which is .310" and should fit fine in the shorter throat. I would avoid Wolf or any eastblock rounds, particualrly the 180-203 grain rounds. Whatever you get, caliper the bullet and test the fit to make sure your ogive is not ramming into the throat.
Keep in mind you can handload the 54R with nothing more than a hand press ($20) and a hand primer, plus the usual components. The big cost is the good brass. Once equipped there would be no problems handloading with Lapua brass and keeping your ogive low. Load in the 148-160 grain range using .308" bullets. No shortage of those, so you're actually going to have a lot to choose from. Lee dies can be ordered with a .308" resizer die too. In fact they used to come with that standard. You might consider just setting this one aside till you can get set up for handloading. With some load testing and tweaking, you would likely be able to get it shooting true MOA. Or better. The M28-30 is one of the greatest military rifles ever made, and one of the most accurate. It's a neat one to have when some smartmouth makes a comment about pie plate commie rifles ;-)
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butcherboy
Member
Cosmoline: would this give me an idea of the size? im going to go to my local gunsmith, just havent had time.( hes an 1hr away) thanks
RE:"see if a 7.62x54 "snaps" on to the bolt face if it does color the casing with a permanent marker and attempt to chamber it it should chamber with little to no resistance the extract the round and look at the permanent marker is should be worn off at the shoulders and the neck among other areas."
my friends have some surplus ammo thats 7.62x54r, if i test fit and it loads easily/smoothly is that a good sign?
RE:"see if a 7.62x54 "snaps" on to the bolt face if it does color the casing with a permanent marker and attempt to chamber it it should chamber with little to no resistance the extract the round and look at the permanent marker is should be worn off at the shoulders and the neck among other areas."
my friends have some surplus ammo thats 7.62x54r, if i test fit and it loads easily/smoothly is that a good sign?
ChronoCube
Member
It means there's enough room in the chamber to accommodate the 7.62x54r.
You should also make sure there isn't TOO MUCH room for it. Tape a piece of paper/foil to the base of the cartridge and try chambering it again. Don't force the bolt closed. If it is 7.62x54r it should not close.
Given that 7.62 NATO is shorter than x54r and is rimless yet your rifle will chamber a x54r and your bolt head will accept the x54r, I highly doubt that your friend was shooting 7.62 NATO.
You should also make sure there isn't TOO MUCH room for it. Tape a piece of paper/foil to the base of the cartridge and try chambering it again. Don't force the bolt closed. If it is 7.62x54r it should not close.
Given that 7.62 NATO is shorter than x54r and is rimless yet your rifle will chamber a x54r and your bolt head will accept the x54r, I highly doubt that your friend was shooting 7.62 NATO.
ChronoCube
Member
Ah what am I saying, the 7.62x54r headspaces on the rim, so this isn't going to measure the bolt-to-shoulder space in the chamber. Try taping a ring of paper to the shoulder of the cartridge instead.
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