Traditional .357 Keith Hollow Point load

[mec]

Keith designed the 173 grain .38 bullet in 1928 and then the HP version a couple of years later. The hollow point pin extended to th bottom of the crimp groove and this version weighted in at 155-158 grains. Lyman almost instantly modified the bullet with a sub-bore diameter front driving band and modified lube and crimp grooves. Keith deplored the changes but allowed it to be a pretty good bullet anyway. The HP became the most popular variation and stayed that way for several decades. It is a tedious thing to cast but, before the bullet companies managed to come up with JHPs that would really expand, it was most useful for .38-44 and .357 loads. Until .357 chambers grew longer, the bullet had to be short seated for use in magnum cases.

The bullet appears to have less bearing surface than some of the current cast SWC designs and produced less velocity with a 100% density loading of 14 Alliant 2400 / standard primer. (next)

 

[mec]

This batch was loaded in virgin Starline .357 cases. 14 /2400 filled the case to the base of the bullet with it seated to the lower edge of the crimp groove. The .358" bullet was then fully seated with a firm crimp. (see picture below for data).

These bullets tend to perform very well loaded to 1,000 fps and over but the nose barely begins to spread in the 850 fps range. It is difficult to recover a bullet that has not lost the nose section clear down to the base of the crimp groove where the large hollow point pin stops. I managed to collect one that had not fully lost the nose section by using the 4" GP and shooting into beef brisket at 50 yards. At this point, velocities were probably down into the mid 1,000 fps range and the bullet still expanded to 50 + caliber and lost 30 grains weight. There were several 1" channels through the brisket.

In the 1960's we used to cast these for a local police reloader who put them up in .38 special / 5.7 Unique. They were standard for a lot of Southwestern Policemen who still used the .38 special and the officers with .357s kept a few on their belts calling them "Dog Loads." We got away with loading them for K-38s over 10.5 2400 and 10.5 WW 630 when it came along. Probably lucky not to damage the Ks, but Speer was listing the 2400 load in their #3 Manual of 1959
The 630 charge with magnum primers would but they would produce velocities in the 1150 fps range and knocked silver dollar exit holes through Jackrabbits out to 80 yards. Keith said the bullet loaded in his heavy .38-.44s were the only .38s he had seen that would drop a porkypine stone dead out of the top of a tall pine tree.

It would appear that the velocities obtained with this load are getting maximum performance from the 358439 bullet. They were cast from bagged chilled shot and there was no lead deposit in the bore of either revolver. Bullet casting experts like to say that a lead mix of this sort will shatter without fully expanding . The recovered bullets pictured tell an entirely different story.

 

[Johnny Guest]

Hey, mec - - -

You put up some really beautiful illustrations with your posts. I always enjoy seeing them.

Uh - - -One thing, though-- Except in the thread title, you don't mention that your loads are in .357 MAGNUM cases. I truly hope it is an illusion caused by camera angle or something, but the loaded cartridge looks almost as if it's a .38 Special case.

Do we need a little editing here? If I'm looking at it wrong, I apologize.

Best,
Johnny

 

[mec]

editing couldn't hurt. I added .357 under the last picture.

 

[Gordon]

If the rest of the world only knew there would be no debate about what to use in your .357 or .38 . The only thing I've come across better is the Corbon 200grain wide flat point that they get same velocity as 173 Keith with sane pressure!

 

[mec]

I need a taller front sight for that load but it is a righteous thumper and accurate too. Their 200 grain Jsp even expands a bit when you shoot it into meat.

 

[Johnny Guest]

Much obliged, mec - - -

I am very impressed with your information. Gotta find a source of those 173 lead HP bullets. I really don't care to get back into casting just now, but this data is very interesting.

Best,
Johnny

 

[mec]

Keith Hollow Point mold