Trail Boss Load for 38 Special Question

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Foto Joe

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I started using Trail Boss for my 44-40 loads just recently because I've had issues with Universal not burning completely in low pressure cartridges. I'm wondering about using it for 38 Special as well but here's my concern.

Not being real experienced with smokeless loading I'm hesitant to use Hodgdons data for LSWC's of 158gr for LRNFP's of the same weight. I would like to think that bullet diameter and weight are bullet diameter and weight so the starting load of 2.7gr of Trail Boss and a max of 4.2gr would be appropriate for both bullets but I'd rather not go from being an inexperienced reloader to a "Test Dummy".

Thanks in advance for the help.
 
Foto Joe,
Load away! You will not have any problems, especially using Trail Boss. Trail Boss was made for Cowboy Action to simulate blackpowder loads. 38 Special is usually loaded to between 14,000 - 16,000 PSI. The load you mentioned above, from IMR, is only 13,700. It appears that IMR has provided a large buffer for safety and basically you can't over pressure the load.
As far as the different lead bullets go, the reloading data is essentially the same and in this instance a 158 LSWC is the same as a LRNFP.

Chicken-Farmer
 
IMR developed Trail Boss to be so safe and low pressure that they have generic loading instructions for using it in any cartridge you want.

http://www.imrpowder.com/PDF/Trail-Boss-data.pdf

Basically, if you fill any cartridge to the base of the seated bullet, that's your max TrailBoss load.

If you reduce that charge to 70% of that volume, that's your starting load.

Hard to go wrong!
 
Just load and shoot. I have used 3.2 to 3.5 gr. Trail Boss with a variety of 158 gr. lead bullets. Trail Boss is my one and only powder for those old pistol cases such as 38 Special, 44 Special, 38-40 and 44--40.
 
I agree you're good to go.
Not to hijack a thread, but have any of you guys run those little charges of Trailboss through a Little Dandy powder measure?
 
Sam1911 said:
If you reduce that charge to 70% of that volume, that's your starting load.
Click to expand...

I'd have never have bought that idea without the link you provided from IMR!!! I shall now proceed use up that 9 ounce pound of Trail Boss I bought.

I did find out that it doesn't like a Lee funnel on top of a Powder-Thru die.:banghead: It gets clumped up and plugs the funnel so from now on it will get dispensed right from the powder measure to the brass. Hopefully when I get my turret press it will drop well into the die since there isn't going to be a funnel to go through.

As usual the folks of THR have educated me...again. Thanks for the help.;)
 
Just remember that Trail Boss is NOT to be compressed or BAD things will happen with pressure. I use it for All my low power loads and just love it for it's versatility and forgiving nature.
 
Just remember that Trail Boss is NOT to be compressed or BAD things will happen with pressure.
Click to expand...
Yes. I've found that it is wonderfully consistent until it starts to get compressed and then velocities start to get highly variable. The same thing seems to happen with very light loads. It really is best to stick to right between 70% and 100% full. In that range it is beautiful to use.
 
Not a Black Powder substitute, i.e. NO COMPRESSION!!

Although obvious to most, it never hurts to make sure that somebody isn't going to build a 38 Special hand grenade.

I'm going to stick to IMR's data of 2.7gr to 4.2gr for now. Once I get a load that provides a decent grouping at 10 yards (2" Taurus), I'll break out the chrony and see what the numbers say before going beyond the 4.2gr if that isn't the maximum uncompressed volume.

I don't have any 38 Special brass right now so I can't measure the volume, but with any luck I'll empty out at least 50 tomorrow.
 
Yes. I've found that it is wonderfully consistent until it starts to get compressed and then velocities start to get highly variable. The same thing seems to happen with very light loads.
Click to expand...
My experience as well. Stay within its design limits and you will be good to go. It also much prefers lead in pistol calibers.
 
Walkalong said:
It also much prefers lead in pistol calibers.
Click to expand...

My range bullets for the little snubby are Bear Creek LRNFP's. I got hooked on these things a couple of months ago when they were all I could get down here in AZ. So far I've been using them for 38, 9mm & 44-40 with good results in all but the 44-40. That one patterns rather than groups so far.
 
I have not tried it with an "moly" bullets. Seems logical they would perform much like lead.
 
with good results in all but the 44-40. That one patterns rather than groups so far
Click to expand...
At the risk of restating the obvious, is your .44-40 actually bored to the original .427" diameter or the more modern .430"? And which are the bullets you are using cast/sized to?

Might make a difference.
 
I use Trail Boss in 38s at 3.0 grains. Use 158gr LRNFPs. Tried other powders but settled on TB. They are loaded for the wifes cowboy guns as I use 45s.
 
I shoukld mention that Trail Boss measures very uniformly in my Dillon 550 using either the standard or large charge bars.
 
Sam1911 said:
At the risk of restating the obvious, is your .44-40 actually bored to the original .427" diameter or the more modern .430"?
Click to expand...

This is a Uberti Schofield with a 5" barrel. It has a groove to groove of .430 and I am using .430 Bear Creek Moly bullets with it for smokeless. I bought it specifically to use with Black Powder 44-40 cartridges but of course the Uberti Schofields don't care for a diet of Black Powder. My plan was to run about 500 smokeless rounds through it to "loosen" it up so to speak. During the break-in time, of course I'm trying to see if I can hit a bullet with the broad side of a barn with this thing and finding out that most barns are safe from damage with this gun.

Interestingly enough, I loaded up 25 rounds for it with 25gr 3f Swiss & 9.5gr cornmeal filler and took her out for excersise yesterday morning. The bullets were Big Lube 200gr RNFP's .429 with a veggie wad between filler and bullet. At 15 yards I was consistantly hitting a 6" gong with the Black Powder. Put 5 smokeless into it and the gong fell silent.

It appears that it would be a great gun for Black Powder, if it would only eat the Black Powder without having to be wiped down with Moose Milk every third cylinder.
 
Man, a Schofield. I'd love the looks of that gun. I used to use Unique for my low power loads. I now use Trail Boss. Lovely powder. Its what I use in my Cimarron Open Top. It's a 44 Special and it too needs light loads. I use Trail Boss in other calibers and love the way it fills the case. Just figure out how far down the bullet seats in the brass and then make sure the Trail Boss is just a tad below the base of the bullet. Not hard to do. You really don't need load data when you do that.
 
Well, Foto Joe, I am certainly at a loss. Darned sure I had that one pegged, too! :D

Any chance the throats are off? That should probably be more of a leading issue than accuracy, though.

Wonder what velocity you're getting with the FFFg, vs. the smokeless? (Yeah, I'm grasping at straws here...) :eek:
 
Well, that's no wimpy "Cowboy Fart" load at 905 fps! Obviously it preferst to "roar" a little! :D
 
There just ain't NOTHIN' like firing a cartridge that was originally designed for Black Powder actually loaded with something close to the original charge.

A pistol in 44-40 with 40gr behind a 200gr bullet smarts a little when it goes off. But a 45 Colt cartridge with the same charge and a 235-255gr bullet REALLY gets your attention.

I don't normally load 44-40 or 45 Colt to its original spec. Even 35gr on 45 Colt is way more than you need. With heavy bullets (200-235) I keep the charge down to 25gr and with 150gr RNFP's in the 45 Colt I drop the charge to 20gr of Goex.
 
Wow, that makes me want to load a few up for the ol' 629! That should raise a few eyebrows at the next match! :)
 
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