Trap Gun?

[cat_IT_guy]

I have been shooting trap, skeet and sporting clays for a while with my Ruger Red Label, but I am beginning to look into a devoted 'trap' gun as the 20ga makes 27yard trap difficult. Ok, its really just an excuse to buy another gun, but anyway....

What exactly constitutes a trap gun? What makes it different from any other shotgun?

I have been looking at the BT-99. Anyone have any experience with them? ITs browning, so I expect quality. Handling? Is it actually a trap gun? Are there other trap guns that I should look into?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Jim Watson]

A real trap gun has higher stock comb and rib than a field gun to let you see the target as you break it while it is still rising. You are probably having to "blot out" a straightaway with your Red Label.

BT99 is a real single barrel trap gun. Well suited for singles, both 16 yd and handicap. I don't know current prices, but when I was more active in trap, it was the best buy. Anything comparable would cost more.

If you want to shoot doubles, you have to have a gun that will fire two shots. The class act is an over-under. And you can always shoot singles with it. Or get a combo with single and double barrels for the same action.

Me?
A single or O/U kicks enough to be uncomfortable over a day's shooting, not to mention a two or three day shoot. I shoot singles and handicap with a Remington 1100 and keep my old Browning Broadway for doubles. I guess I could shoot the gas gun for doubles but the clank-clank as it cycles is distracting. So I put up with O/U recoil for the doubles.

 

[mswestfall]

You are correct in your assessment. A 20 gauge puts you at a disadvantage. Trap is a 12 gauge sport.

A Trap gun is either single or a double barrel. The O/U is almost always used as some consider it to give a better, single line-of-sight. IMO a break action gun is an advantage in handling and safety but makes almost no difference when you go to pull the trigger. Trap guns tend to have lots of gizmos on them like adjustable recoil pads, offset recoil pads, adjustable combs, adjustable ribs, raised ribs, fins to block the "off side" eye from seeing the front bead, release triggers, comb pads, duct tape, etc.

The basic jist of a Trap Gun is that the gun points up slightly compared to a Skeet, Field or Sporting Clays gun. The advantage in this is that you can see the bird above the bbl when you pull the trigger. Trap is a rising bird sport so this is generally considered as an advantage. The center of gravity of a Trap Gun also tends to be different as the gun is not moved very far compared to other shotgun sports. This is often accomplished by having a longer bbl on a Trap Gun.

A BT 99 is a fine shotgun! If you do get one I suggest that you spend the extra $200 and get the version with the adjustable comb.

Others to look into:

O/U or single bbl:
Berretta single or dbl bbls.
Pumps.
A nice old Winchester Model 12 (Trap Version) with a raised Simmons Rib.
A nice old Rem 870 Wingmaster

I am not a big fan of a semi-auto for Trap because they spit empties on your squad mates. Even if you have a shell catcher you will spit hulls when shooting doubles. If this is not an issue for you there are:
Rem 1100
Rem 11-87
Browining Gold (and others)
Berretta AL 391 (several models). Specifically look at the Parallel or Trap versions
Franchi (sp)
Benelli

There are many, many others.

Be sure you get a gun that fits you!

Good luck with whatever you choose and be sure to let us know....

 

[sm]

Jim Watson is spot on .

Quite a few folks have brought back out, or are getting Win SX1s to shoot Trap with again.

Target Grade , Trap Guns and the Target Grade Two Barrel Sets are the ones folks are looking for.

Beretta Semi's are gaining more of a following too, as it is darn difficult to get anyone to give up a Trap 1100, SX1 or Older Beretta gun ( like 303)

Seems the "shell catcher" bidness is picking up too.

 

[ArmedBear]

I have an 870 Express, 1100 Magnum, and a BT-99 (pre-BT100 model).

I have a friend with a Wingmaster and a recent BT-99.

The BT-99s are great trap guns, though they're no Ithaca 5E's (drooling over a friend's collection of 60-year-old trap guns that he uses regularly -- those things weare built with the precision and beauty of a Rolls Royce, and the durability of a tank).

But neither one of us shoots a damn bit better with the BT than with an 870 or 1100.

A trap gun works best if it's heavier and longer than average, and shoots a bit high. It has to fit you in the position where you will shoot high-gun at a target that's pretty much directly in front of you, not overhead. It tends to have a slightly longer LOP than a gun you'd shoot starting from a "low gun" position, all other things being equal (LOP is not a great measurement to compare between types of guns, as trigger position vis-a-vis the wrist and receiver can be VERY different).

IMHO a Wingmaster Classic Trap (current production) or older 870 trap model (various different ones made over the past half century), if it fits you, will shoot as well as a BT-99 does for less money. Lots of trap records have been set with 870s and Model 12s -- generally with custom-fit stocks. The Wingmaster Classic Trap weighs 8 lb.+ and with a 30" barrel has about the same OAL as a break-action with a 34" barrel. Plenty of heft and length for trap.

I wouldn't get a semiauto for trap unless you're really recoil sensitive and have nothing better to do than clean a gun. Pumps require a lot less cleaning, and though break-actions should be cleaned regularly, it's much quicker and easier than with a semi. Shell catchers sort of work, some of the time. If you don't have one (or a good rubber band), expect your neighbor at the range to grumble and not really want you around. Also a PITA if you reload or even just clean up after yourself, as my range requires.

If you have some cash to spend, remember these words when at the used gun shop: Browning Superposed Broadway Trap. They're not TOO expensive, cheaper than most new Brownings, but REALLY nice and I prefer them.

 

[Dave McCracken]

BT99s and 100s are fine trap guns.

So are 12s, X1s, 31s, 870s, ad infinitum.

Best trap guns run heavy to soak up the kick, long for inertia and tightly choked because,uh, that's the way they are.

Trap guns tend to NOT be versatile, like Indy cars or F-16s. Good for what they do.

Enjoy....

 

[Jim Watson]

I never was comfortable with a pump. The pump handle flopping around was a constant distraction to me. I even tried one of those single shot gas piston 870s but could not tell that it moderated the kick much and the foreend still felt loose. My old 1100 never has got much cleaning, largely because I shoot the Broadway for doubles. All the auto has to do is fire one and lock open. My FLG put a shellcatcher on it that worked better than any you can buy, but I have come to prefer a 28" modified instead of 30" full.

 

[sm]

See why I shoot Skeet? Other clay games?
I don't have to worry about shell catchers.

I still contend with the problem of not wanting to bend over and pick up hulls, O/U are nice, but sometimes I wanna shoot a Repeater that spits them out.

At least shotgun folks are not as odd as some folks.

Golf, tennis...

<ducks>

I like using Mod when I "do" shoot trap, I too feel more folks would do better if they shot Mod instead of Full.

 

[ArmedBear]

I accidentally used IC to shoot 25 yard handicap wobble in my last after-work league shoot. It worked fine.

Granted, I was using top-quality shot and wads in handloads, and the BT does pattern well, but still, IC for 25 yard handicap? A lot of guys will tell you that won't work. But it sure did. The clays broke with authority, too, not just halfhearted chips or anything.

Seems trapshooters are choking down way too much, especially if shooting premium shot. Sure, it's good to practice with a Turkey choke so you can't fudge your shots, but when shooting for score, why not open it up a tad and give yourself a little extra chance to hit the thing?

Now I'm not saying to shoot handicap with an IC choke, but a lot of guys insist on shooting singles with a Full and hard shot. That's fine with me, but it doesn't really make sense objectively.

 

[sm]

AB,

Skeet shooter me, just too durn lazy to change barrels or chokes.

If it breaks, its broke trap clay don't know if it was hit with a Cyl , SK, IC or the .735 , external knurled Nu-Line Choke I had screwed in my SX1

Nickel Plated hard shot #8 and # 7 1/2 worked.

<watches, waits, hopes, small chip falls off at last second > "dead bird"

 

[ArmedBear]

Hell, the last 3 shotguns I've bought, and the one that I'd like to get, don't even HAVE screw-ins.

I HATE cleaning those damn things. Plastic gums them up, grease and fouling get all over my hands.

 

[sm]

Re: Fixed Chokes

Yep, my preference for sure.

My contention, and that of others, when screw ins came to be, matters were going to go downhill.
Then again The Great Equipment Race was gearing up too.

Before all this though-
Folks learned to shoot, with a gun that fit, with correct basics and fundamentals.
Folks patterned the gun and by Investigating and Verifying they knew what did what for what.

Skeet and Trap have always ribbed each other. Add other shotgun disciplines.
Still Trap folks did as we Skeet folks did, we shot the fixed choked guns.

New Target load come out, or powder discontinue, and while I wanted a 2 3/4 dr for Skeet, and Trap buddies wanted a 3dr eq...we patterned the fix choke SK, IC, Mod and Full together.
Heck, have a Mec Single stage reloader out and be working a load up.

Shoot that load in all the guns and take notes, make suggestions...

Activ Shotshells came out, all plastic, except for primer.
WE just had to check these out, fix chokes and see what was what.


Now one can buy skill and targets *smirk*

 

[Big Az Al]

Trap guns

I can not argue with what the others have said,

but for me, the gun I chose,

Was/is as comtortable as a well worn pair of shoes,

I know it well enough that it comes up right were I want it every time with my eyes closed,

And I have justified total confidence in this gun.

That said I lenghtened the stock, by almost an inch, I added a 1/4 inch cheekeze pad to the comb, and added a middle bead.

Does this work? Well at least for me, My wife told me MY shelf is full do not bring any more awards home, so I can't argue with it.

I also saw more Model 12's this last year then I did 4 years ago when I started shooting ATA trap.

And my skeet gun is the model as my trap with the same length of pull, but nothing do raise the POI

 

[sm]

Big Az Al,

Good points shared by you as always.

Cyclic perhaps, still it seems we have those that find what works and never change, except if the body changes, and having to tweak the fit.
Some, due to age, injury or something have to change, temporarily or permanent like going to a gas gun, or 28 gauge and shooting the "Short Trap" .
I mean these folks have fired 100,000 and more rounds, maybe detached a retina, or whatever...

Then we have folks that have fought, resisted, argued, and refused to listen or even try anything the seasoned folks suggested or are doing.
Finally, they give up and ...by golly...Model 12s, 1100, 870, - whatever, ain't that bad at all!

Then here comes another cycle, folks wanting Model 12s...

I guess learning curve, maturity , something. Not just Trap, Life period.

Number 2 pencils "really" are not that old fashioned and out of date "after all" .

 

[Striker]

I got into trap shooting before skeet and started out with my 870M Wingmaster with a 30" fixed full choke. This was was my first 870 and I used it for most everything for 10 years or so. Only mod for trap shooting was to build up the comb with moleskin to get it shooting high so as not to occlude the bird coming out of the trap house. I got pretty good with that gun and made the club trap team for the various leagues in and around NE Ohio & Western PA.

I shot with it for a year or two, but got the chance to shoot a variety different guns from various league members and settled on a BT -100 for singles. Great gun and but then picked up an 11-87 TGT for doubles along the way and it has supplanted the BT-100 as my primary.

Bottom line though is that if limited to one gun, it would be the 870. It fits me, I'm comfortable with it, and I'm very confident that it will do its part when I do mine.

YMMV

 

[mpbond]

I use a BT-99 w/ 32in barrel and release trigger. If you have ANY kind of problem w/ flinching, get a release trigger. It will take care of it.

Basically, you load, take aim, pull and hold the trigger, call for the bird, and once you are ready to fire, release the trigger. It is a little wierd at first, but it soon becomes totally natural. Also, using the release trigger did not make it difficult what so ever to switch back to my other guns for skeet or sporting clays.

 

[Capstick1]

Good trap guns

Last couple of weeks I've put 600 rds through a Belgium made Auto Five. I put a 27" Poly Choke barrel on it and this thing dusts those clay pigeons with consistant regularity. The Poly Choke barrel looks a little ugly but one thing I like about this set up is the fact that if I want to use this same shotgun for sporting clays or skeet all I got to do is rotate the choke adjustment knob at the end of the barrel. I don't have to carry around 3 or 4 different choke tubes and a special wrench. I've pretty much made this my designated all around competition shotgun. High volume shooting has shown a few gremlins with this shotgun though. After about 400 rds two things happened. The original wood forend started to crack. Before anybody asks, yes I did keep the front forend retention nut tight. I've since ordered a black Bell and Carlson synthetic stock set. Some people might find the synthetic stocks ugly but all the ones I've used in the past have never cracked and are still going strong. The semiautomatic shotguns seem to be especially hard on wooden forends. The one on my Rem 1187 also cracked from all the heat generated by the gas system. Another thing with the Auto five that I discovered was that every 500 rds or so you actually do need to put a few drops of oil on the brass ring at the front of the action spring. If you don't do this the outer surface of the magazine tube will get so dry that the barrel won't go back hard enough to lock the bolt back and eject the shell.
I don't know if Browning still makes it but another good Trap specific shotgun is a "Recoilless" singleshot shotgun. This gun fired one shot only but it had a bolt with an action spring behind it that would simply eject the shell when you fired it.

 

[Big Az Al]

Capstick

The Brng Recoilless shotgun, almost fires from an open bolt, I say almost because it does have a (sorta Bolt) but the firing action is a heavey wieght that starts slow and builds enough momentum to over come the recoil of the fired shell, what recoil is left over resets the striker block. The shooters I have seen shooting them say the loooong gap between pulling the trigger and the gun actually firing calls for perfect form and follow thru,.

I have an A5 with the synthetic forearm, and the original butstock, it gets looks, but it shoots great.

With an A5 for trap singles and handicap, set it up for magnum loads, you should have to work the bolt by hand, but now you have a great recoil reducer working for you (a lot of shooters put something like this in the butstock) you also no longer have to worry about flying hulls, and you can save your MT's

Love my A5 for just about any shooting sport!