Travel with handgun laws in TX, AR ,TN, VA, MD, NJ ,NY,CT, MA, and PA??

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VA is an open carry state-as long as it's in PLAIN view in the car, she should be OK.

Not written in stone, but apparently some/lots? of LE agencies are teaching the "two move rule"-if your gun is concealed (without a CHP) and you can retrieve it in one move, you're screwed. If it takes two or more moves, you're OK. As stated, this probably ain't law, but some agencies are teaching it, and in VA a lot of laws say "on or about your person"-which may be where the two move rule came from?

A couple of links/pdfs for VA:
http://www.vsp.state.va.us/Firearms.shtm
http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/virginia.pdf

Also check out this post (it has a couple of VA PDF brochures-can't post 'em again!?)
 
AR Journey

I'm assuming your friend will be passing through Arkansas and may stop say somewhere on the way, like in Little Rock and see something for a few hours, while on her journey. She is still 'on a journey' while stopping to eat, pump gas, even stop at a store because she is away from her 'circle of friends' in Texas. I know this sounds very old fashioned but you have to think back late 1800's when the old law was written and the court rulings came out defining a 'journey' when people would ride from the country into town to get supplies....going to town was a 'journey' for those folks and they were legal carrying their handguns.

Let me give you another example.....Let's say I drive from Little Rock (my former hometown) to Fort Smith (not my hometown/no friends) for business. I am legal carrying on the way to Fort Smith in my car/on my person...while in Fort Smith...and back home to Little Rock. When I am back to my area of Little Rock...I go home..put the handgun in my nightstand because my journey has ended...under the old law I am not legal carrying a weapon in my neighborhood in my 'circle of friends'. Yes I know wacked out sounding...but that is Arkansas.

The reason why I said conceal is that not everyone is aware of the journey now that the licensing system is so widespread in Arkansas. Your 21 year old cop might be as far as in the car (and it is)..but might not realize that it includes and is legal for carrying on the person away from the car. Concealing...though not required when on a journey....avoids that problem...those carrying on a license are required to conceal in AR.

Arkansas is not New York or New Jersey.
 
CT you are fine as long as you follow the FOPA guidelines of unloaded, locked in case in the rear/unaccessible part of the vehicle and you are traveling through CT. Here you go from the CT statutes:

Sec. 29-38d. Interstate transportation of firearms through state. (a) The provisions of sections 29-35 and 29-38 shall not apply to the interstate transportation of firearms through this state in accordance with 18 USC 926A and 927, as amended from time to time, by any person who is not otherwise prohibited from shipping, transporting, receiving or possessing a firearm. Such person may transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where such person may lawfully possess and carry such firearm through this state to any other place where such person may lawfully possess and carry such firearm provided such transportation is in accordance with subsection (b) of this section.

(b) During the transportation of a firearm through this state as authorized in subsection (a) of this section, such firearm shall be unloaded and neither such firearm nor any ammunition being transported shall be readily accessible or directly accessible from the passenger compartment of the vehicle. If the vehicle does not have a compartment separate from the passenger compartment, such firearm shall be unloaded and such firearm and any ammunition being transported shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.

(c) No person who is transporting a firearm through this state in accordance with this section may use or carry such firearm or sell, deliver or otherwise transfer such firearm while in this state.
Click to expand...
 
do not enter Ma with any type of firearm,pepper spray without a non resident LTC very serious penalties can and will ensue. Out of state permits can be had but the cost is $100 a year and allows you to carry/possess but you can't buy ammo.
 
What is the destination state on this journey (a misnomer, as 'journey' means the distance one can travel in a day)? It would appear that the OP's friend is traveling from TX to MA via overland route. If MA is the final destination, FOPA protection would seem not to apply, as possession needs to be legal in the starting and ending states of the trip.

FOPA's intent (the spirit of the law) is to allow passage through a given state on the way to some other state when there is no other means of getting to the destination than through the restricted state, ie.- VT>PA via NY. Its going to be a tough sell, if caught, that one's necessary intenerary is, for example VT>NH via MA. You can't really go out of your way to pass through a state where possession is prohibited.

Two salient points:

1: This trip is a multi-day affair. Wherever she beds down for the night, possession must be legal for FOPA to apply.

2: Passage through a state where possession is prohibited must be necessary to get to a state where possession is legal for FOPA to apply.
 
more info pls

Thanks All for more info!
Basicblur,
in one of your linked posts, you wrote:" The House and Senate both just adopted Governor McDonnell's change to HB 885, so that starting July 1 a non-CHP holder can have a loaded handgun in an UNLOCKED compartment or container in a private motor vehicle or vessel "
Just so I am clear, do you mean that in a vehicle, a non-CHL can open CARRY or open TRANSPORT?

Razorback, sounds like my friend's whole trip is a journey in AR- unless she stops at a domicile and uses it as a base of operations for visiting around the state. Sound correct? or, can she carry the whole time, even while galavanting around, since she is still on this protracted journey?

Looks like CT can be ammended in the summary page to: FOPA-style only.

highlander5, need much more clarification- be specific please, and a quote from relevant statutes or case law, if indeed she cannot even enter MA without incurring serious penalties. Not even FOPA-style?

Lemmycaution, pls post where in FOPA it supports your "necessity" statement (or case law, if applicable): " Passage through a state where possession is prohibited must be necessary to get to a state where possession is legal for FOPA to apply. ". The way i read FOPA, it says "anyplace legal to anyplace legal" which means that you can backtrack all over an otherwise prohibited state since her vacation is a legal trip from lots of places where she is legal to be, to other places she is legal to be.

and, to fil in gaps in the info in general:
Also, if anyone does know wether or not a hotel is considered your domicile in MD? I know a rental property is.

and, still no info on the following states: DE, NJ, PA, RI. (as above: pending some clarification on VA, and MD)

Oh, and my friend just informed me that she forgot to incluse Rhode Island. OK, add RI. Summary slide follows.

C-

p.s. I am considering lending her my TASER and a baseball bat/handcuffs/Foxlabs; for "just in case" in some of the more anti-freedom states.
 
updated summary, and new states thrown in

Updated Summary

So, as a synopsis:
TX: while still in Texas; just can’t OPEN carry anywhere (except her domicile); and can’t concealed carry anywhere EXCEPT: going from her domicile directly to vehicle or vehicle directly to domicile, in her domicile, in her vehicle, and going directly say from the range to her car or vice versa with no detours. She can also hide a handgun anywhere in her vehicle (except where a minor can get at it).

AR: Must inform police in Arkansas when 'on a journey' when carrying a weapon. You may carry the handgun openly or concealed -in the vehicle, not in public- without a license
Pursuant to section 5-73-120(c), it is a defense to prosecution under section 5-73-120 that at the time of the act of carrying a handgun, the person is:
In his or her own dwelling, place of business (excluding a "vehicular business" such as a taxi cab or other motor vehicle used for commercial purposes; see Boston v. State, 952 S.W.2d 671 (Ark. 1997)), or on property in which he or she has a possessory or proprietary interest;
Carrying a weapon when upon a journey, unless the journey is through a commercial airport when presenting at the security checkpoint in the airport or is in the person's checked baggage and is not a lawfully declared weapon (see Riggins v. State, 703 S.W.2d 463, 464 (Ark. Ct. App. 1986), "[a] journey has long been defined as 'where one travels a distance from home sufficient to carry him beyond the circle of his neighbors and general acquaintances and outside of the routine of his daily business...'" (citations omitted));
Have a safe trip passing through Arkansas, keep your handgun concealed to avoid any unexpected delay and you'll have to unload it before crossing into TN to be in compliance with TN law. you need a license/permit anytime, journey or not, to carry a handgun in public (TN continues next section)

TN: Your friend is legal in TN with her handgun unloaded, with ammo separate from the gun, say in the trunk in her luggage. You could unload before crossing one of the bridges into Memphis from West Memphis (do that at daylight or very well light area with lots of people because West Memphis is rough). A good safe place is the Hwy 118 exit..there is a Dairy Queen and Huddle House open until 10PM...if later next exit east will have a Wal Mart and well lit gas stations in West Memphis. Don't stop anywhere in Memphis city limits alone with an unloaded gun, if you don't know the area. You can have a loaded gun in your hotel room because it is your 'residence' in TN. Safe places east of Memphis for a woman to stop for gas are the Canada Rd/Lakeland, TN Exit and the Hwy 385/Airline Road Exit that is in Arlington, TN. Lakeland and Arlington are both safe suburbs outside Memphis. I'm assuming your friend will be traveling on Interstate 40 if she's passing from TX, AR, and TN.

VA: (pending small clarification)

MD: Well, I used to live in MD myself. I remmeber: unloaded, locked in trunk. Ammo seperate and NOT loaded into magazines, and also locked up out of accessibility range. Basically, OK to transport; not to carry. When in your home/business, you are OK.
In MD, you can't even drive around sightseeing or shopping FOPA-style; only to and from home, range, repair shop, or business; and then only FOPA-style!
What I don't know about MD: is a hotel room your domicile?

DE:

NJ:

NY: Check out NY very closley. I believe once you cross their border with a handgun and no permit you're toast if they find it.
1) Travel there only under the guidelines in FOPA and
2) Never consent to any search so they won't find it anyway. (*below for FOPA rules)
OK, there HAS to be a way to at least TRANSPORT a handgun through NY. Unloaded, locked in trunk, seperate from ammo?

CT: FOPA-style only (i.e. Unloaded, locked in trunk, seperate from ammo )

MA:

PA:

RI: (not sure what state she is entering RI from)


Still a few more states to fill in. Thanks in advance! You'all have been very helpful!

(*): FOPA Guidelines:1986 Firearms Owners Protection Act (FOPA), also known as the Mcclure-Volkmer act. TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 44 > § 926A
§ 926A. Interstate transportation of firearms
Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver’s compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.


C-
 
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Basicblur, in one of your linked posts, you wrote:" The House and Senate both just adopted Governor McDonnell's change to HB 885, so that starting July 1 a non-CHP holder can have a loaded handgun in an UNLOCKED compartment or container in a private motor vehicle or vessel "
Just so I am clear, do you mean that in a vehicle, a non-CHL can open CARRY or open TRANSPORT?
Click to expand...

Yes-if you do NOT have a CHP (Concealed Handgun Permit), you CAN open carry (loaded)-VA is an open carry state. You can wear it in the open, in public, etc without a permit (no schools, government buildings, etc). Normal disclaimers apply-is on your hip, but between you and the car door OC since the officer may not be able to see it? Best not to take a chance-just leave it on the passenger seat in plain view etc.

AFA HB855, remember the "two move rule" I referenced earlier? While not a law (it's a rule, taught by how many depts?), if you currently do not have a CHP and have a gun in an UNLOCKED glove compartment, you're screwed (takes only 1 move to retrieve the gun-open the glove compartment). If you have it LOCKED in the glove compartment, you (should be) OK-it takes 2 distinct moves to retrieve the gun-you have to UNLOCK the glove compartment, then OPEN it in order to retrieve the gun. Once you start talking trunk etc, you're talking a LOT of moves to retrieve the gun (open door, walk to trunk, unlock trunk, open trunk, etc).

In addition to changing glove box carry requirements, the July 1st law(s) will also make it legal to CC in restaurants that serve alcohol for consumption on premises (you can't drink while doing so). Currently (and I'm pretty sure it will remain so after the new law goes into effect, although I've not really seen it discussed) you can OC in a "bar" (used for brevity-VA does not technically have bars), but cannot CC even with CHP.

So-NOW, your friend can OC in a bar/restaurant, mall, etc. If the owners ask you to leave the premises, you must do so, or you can be arrested for trespassing (not a weapons violation).

Probably more than you wanted to know, but I hope it clears up some questions?

VA can be pretty simple (compared to some states)-just leave it in PLAIN VIEW while in the car!

BTW-AFA the safe transport act-I've heard officials in D.C. say they don't give a rat's behind what the federal law says-you ain't going to transport anything though D.C. From what I hear, parts of N.Y. may have the same attitude.

Your friend should have little trouble in VA, but I can see a world of problems on her trip when you start talking 'bout some of the states she's passing through!

EDIT: The short version for your chart (I'm sure you can edit for your purposes)?
VA: No duty to inform, OC (in car also) legal. Starting July 1st, carry in UNLOCKED glove box legal. Since OC legal (in car also), no need for separation of ammo, magazines, etc.
 
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The way i read FOPA, it says "anyplace legal to anyplace legal" which means that you can backtrack all over an otherwise prohibited state since her vacation is a legal trip from lots of places where she is legal to be, to other places she is legal to be.
Click to expand...

You're reading the wording of the law. I'm reading the intent. I welcome you to be the test case of this in MA, NY or NJ. I predict a lengthy, expensive appeals process, from which your emergence without prison time/felony conviction is seriously questionable.

But, anyway, why would she enter MA, then backtrack out? She can't justifiably stop for anything more than refueling/toilets. Once she stops at the New England Aquarium, for example, her destination becomes MA and she's in violation of FOPA. A scenic drive in the country with no stops? This just doesn't pass the smell test.
 
Just so I am clear, do you mean that in a vehicle, a non-CHL can open CARRY or open TRANSPORT?
Click to expand...

IANAL, but AFAIK, transporting in plain view in your vehicle is considered OC in VA. Been trying to find some legal links to "spell it out", but no luck so far. There's a lot of info 'bout tranporting firearms in VA at the State Police site, but it covers mostly rifles, shotguns, etc.

Did get this from the VA State Police site (BOLD UNDERLINE MINE)-you can pretty much blow through the rest of it (covers all kinds of knives, martial arts stuff, etc).

§18.2-308 - Prohibits the carrying of any pistol, revolver, or other weapon designed or intended to propel a missile of any kind by action of an explosion of any combustible material; any dirk, bowie knife, switchblade knife, ballistic knife, machete, razor, slingshot, spring stick, metal knucks, or blackjack; any flailing instrument consisting of two or more rigid parts connected in such a manner as to allow them to swing freely, which may be known as a nun chahka, nun chuck, nunchaku, shuriken, or fighting chain; any disc, of whatever configuration, having at least two points or pointed blades which is designed to be thrown or propelled and which may be known as a throwing star or oriental dart; or any weapon of like kind by any person hidden from common observance about his person. Any of the enumerated weapons shall be seized and forfeited to the Commonwealth. A weapon shall be deemed to be hidden from common observation when it is observable but is of such deceptive appearance as to disguise the weapon's true nature.

From the VA State Police PDF brochure I posted at the other thread:
(this is in reference to the above statute on the PDF, but I see no mention made of the below at the site)
Based on the statute and decisions rendered by the Supreme Court, a weapon is considered to be concealed at any time it is placed in a location as to be within reach of the person, without the person being required to make an overt act to retrieve such weapon, when such weapon is hidden from common observation. Placing a weapon under the seat, on the seat hidden from common observation, or at any location from which he weapon can readily be retrieved is considered to be concealed. A person carrying a weapon in the unlocked glove compartment of an automobile, if the person does not have a permit or otherwise fall within any statutory exemption, is a violation of law, unless some particular fact or circumstance renders the weapon inaccessible.

'Course, we know the glove box requirements are going to change July 1st.
 
MD: Well, I used to live in MD myself. I remmeber: unloaded, locked in trunk. Ammo seperate and NOT loaded into magazines, and also locked up out of accessibility range. Basically, OK to transport; not to carry. When in your home/business, you are OK.
What I don't know about MD: is a hotel room your domicile?
Click to expand...
In MD under parts of law (like tax law) a hotel room is not your "domicile" unless you have lived there a long time and list it as your only place of residence and as your address for taxes, voter registration, DL, etc. In MD a "domicile" is not necessarily the same thing as a "residence" in MD.
Your hotel room is considered other things which may allow you to possess a handgun in MD though. I will get to that later in the post.

One thing to point out, the MD handgun transport law does not apply to antique handguns.

You can transport a handgun in MD by either FOPA or state law. The understanding some of us have is that if you are transporting by fed law alone then you may have to leave the handgun in the trunk when at the hotel, but it might be possible to use a mixture of fed and state law depending on what segment of your trip and activities are being conducted.
Another thing to point out, under MD law there is no requirement that the handgun be innaccessible, in the trunk or the ammo seperate. The law only says the handgun must be unloaded and in an enclosed case or enclosed holster when wearing, carrying or transporting to one of the approved activities or locations listed in statute.

These below are the pertinent parts of the statute 4-203:

(3) the carrying of a handgun on the person or in a vehicle while the person is transporting the handgun to or from the place of legal purchase or sale, or to or from a bona fide repair shop, or between bona fide residences of the person, or between the bona fide residence and place of business of the person, if the business is operated and owned substantially by the person if each handgun is unloaded and carried in an enclosed case or an enclosed holster;
Click to expand...
There is some doubt what the definition of a "bona fide" residence and whether or not a hotel room falls under thismeaning, however as I stated before under fed law, when comming in from out of state, you can theoretically be transporting legally to the hotel room as long as the handgun is unloaded and in the trunk or locked if in the passenger compartment.
(4) the wearing, carrying, or transporting by a person of a handgun used in connection with an organized military activity, a target shoot, formal or informal target practice, sport shooting event, hunting, a Department of Natural Resources-sponsored firearms and hunter safety class, trapping, or a dog obedience training class or show, while the person is engaged in, on the way to, or returning from that activity if each handgun is unloaded and carried in an enclosed case or an enclosed holster;
Click to expand...
Once at the hotel room, if you wanted to go to an informal target shoot the next day you can transport under the above as I understand it because you are going to or comming from.
Also note it says you can carry and wear the handgun on the way there or participating in so the "out of reach" myth is just that, a myth.

Now for the hotel room carry.
(6) the wearing, carrying, or transporting of a handgun by a person on real estate that the person owns or leases or where the person resides or within the confines of a business establishment that the person owns or leases;
Click to expand...
You are leasing the hotel room and you are residing there. As I see it, you can carry in the hotel room loaded.
However, there is something in MD law stating that if the hotel has a policy against it and they find out, they can immediately kick you out of their hotel.

Now for another way to be legally able to transport to the hotel room.....do you have a C&R FFL? ;)
(5) the moving by a bona fide gun collector of part or all of the collector's gun collection from place to place for public or private exhibition if each handgun is unloaded and carried in an enclosed case or an enclosed holster;
Click to expand...
 
VA is an open carry state-as long as it's in PLAIN view in the car, she should be OK.
Click to expand...
That is if it is loaded. If unloaded and in a case I think it comes under the handgun transport statute of VA, but I have to look up the specifics.
 
VA is an open carry state-as long as it's in PLAIN view in the car, she should be OK.
Click to expand...

That is if it is loaded. If unloaded and in a case I think it comes under the handgun transport statute of VA, but I have to look up the specifics.
Click to expand...

Ah yes...the operative words here are "I think" (and in my case "should")! :D
FWIW, I was referring to a loaded gun on the passenger seat-some of these various state laws really hamstring you AFA SD while traveling in your car-fortunately, VA does not.

I've been 'round and 'round various VA sites-the State Police site has tons o' stuff covering mostly long guns/shotguns transport etc-darn little/nothing 'bout transporting a pistol-'bout all their pistol info covers CC.

Hard to believe it would be against the law to have an unloaded pistol on the passenger's seat, but not against the law to have a loaded one (but the law is often an ass)!
Then again-some would say it's no more asinine than our current law (until July 1st) which prohibits CC in bars, but allows OC! :what:

'Course, she should know the simple solution to that...
put a loaded magazine in the sucker! :cool:

EDIT: Well now ya got my curiosity up-probably too late to contact the State Police, but I just called our local city PD and asked them if you can carry an unloaded gun on the passenger seat-duty officer says yes.
'Course, I realize he ain't a lawyer!
Think I'll e-mail the State Police to see what they say.
 
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VA handgun transport when not worn openly...

§ 18.2-308. Personal protection; carrying concealed weapons; when lawful to carry.

A. If any person carries about his person, hidden from common observation, (i) any pistol, revolver,...

...Except as provided in subsection J1, this section shall not apply to....


..... 3. Any regularly enrolled member of a target shooting organization who is at, or going to or from, an established shooting range, provided that the weapons are unloaded and securely wrapped while being transported;

4. Any regularly enrolled member of a weapons collecting organization who is at, or going to or from, a bona fide weapons exhibition, provided that the weapons are unloaded and securely wrapped while being transported;

5. Any person carrying such weapons between his place of abode and a place of purchase or repair, provided the weapons are unloaded and securely wrapped while being transported;
Click to expand...
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-308
 
Semantics, donchaknow!

That is if it is loaded. If unloaded and in a case...
Click to expand...

Had to go back and read one of his questions to me, where he asked about "open transport".
I'm assuming by open transport he's talking outta the case, etc?

Semantics can get ya in a world o' hurt, donchaknow? :banghead:
 
Lemmycaution,
The "smell test" is that she has family she will be staying with in MA. So she has a raason to stop for other than sightseeing.

i will post/reply/commment to othe rposts later tonight- but let me say a big time THANKS!!!!! in advance.
C-
 
C-

If she's staying with family, MA has now become the destination of that journey. I don't believe that FOPA offers any protection here, as the destination state prohibits possession.
 
The "smell test" is that she has family she will be staying with in MA. So she has a raason to stop for other than sightseeing.
Click to expand...

Well, that scews her FOPA protection as far as MA is concerned.
 
??

Sam1911:
So it is NOT legal for her to drive to a private residence, where she has permission to stay, with her handgun in MA?
Or, is her friends' home not a place where she can legally posess her firearm?

C-

I may restart this thread. I don't know about you all, but when i read a thread that gets too long, i phase out unless it is REALLY interesting. And, fascinating as this is, i doubt its that intriguing- and that some with info to share are not because they wont read the whole thread.

C-
 
Alright, so MA and NY is the same as DC- no transport unless going someplace where it is legal to posessit; which for an out of state resident is NOWHERE.
So, SAFEST but still not legal is FOPA and dont get caught.
Yeesh! And this is the land of the Free?
C-
 
Applicable Texas Statutes

It's a good idea to have the applicable statutes in your possession when traveling, even in Texas.

You can find the Texas Castle Law here:
http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/BillLookup/Text.aspx?LegSess=80R&Bill=HB1815

Section 30.01 (referred to in 1815) clearly defines "Habitation" and can be found here:
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/docs/PE/htm/PE.30.htm

HB 1815 allows for transportation of handguns in the state of Texas:
http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/BillLookup/Text.aspx?LegSess=80R&Bill=HB1815

Good luck.
 
Travel there only under the guidelines in FOPA
Click to expand...

Without knowing the details of the trip, the FOIA may or may not apply. It would seem that severals stops will be made along the way and as such, would make that inapplicable.

NJ AG Guideline:

http://www.state.nj.us/njsp/about/fire_trans.html

Through the state will not be a problem if secured in the manner described nor are stops for food, gas, etc.

Unrelated, do not use a computerized routing from NJ to MA. They send you the shortest but worst way. possible. Drop me an email and I'll give you the best way up.
 
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