Almost complete info: travel w/handgun non-chl thru DE, NJ, PA & RI

[cpileri]

Almost complete info: travel w/handgun non-chl thru TX,AR,TN,VA,MD,NJ,NY,CT,MA,PA&RI.

Still need: DE, NJ, PA & RI

repost of old thread to shorten it up. Big thanks due to all contributors! here's the story.

A friend who DOES NOT have a Carry Permit in any state is planning a driving trip. Her itinerary takes her as follows; needing info on states on this list with blanks after their entry:

TX: while still in Texas; just can’t OPEN carry anywhere (except her domicile); and can’t concealed carry anywhere EXCEPT: going from her domicile directly to vehicle or vehicle directly to domicile, in her domicile, in her vehicle, and going directly say from the range to her car or vice versa with no detours. She can also hide a handgun anywhere in her vehicle (except where a minor can get at it).

AR: Must inform police in Arkansas when 'on a journey' when carrying a weapon. You may carry the handgun openly or concealed -in the vehicle, not in public- without a license
Pursuant to section 5-73-120(c), it is a defense to prosecution under section 5-73-120 that at the time of the act of carrying a handgun, the person is:
In his or her own dwelling, place of business (excluding a "vehicular business" such as a taxi cab or other motor vehicle used for commercial purposes; see Boston v. State, 952 S.W.2d 671 (Ark. 1997)), or on property in which he or she has a possessory or proprietary interest;
Carrying a weapon when upon a journey, unless the journey is through a commercial airport when presenting at the security checkpoint in the airport or is in the person's checked baggage and is not a lawfully declared weapon (see Riggins v. State, 703 S.W.2d 463, 464 (Ark. Ct. App. 1986), "[a] journey has long been defined as 'where one travels a distance from home sufficient to carry him beyond the circle of his neighbors and general acquaintances and outside of the routine of his daily business...'" (citations omitted));
Have a safe trip passing through Arkansas, keep your handgun concealed to avoid any unexpected delay and you'll have to unload it before crossing into TN to be in compliance with TN law. you need a license/permit anytime, journey or not, to carry a handgun in public (TN continues next section)

TN: Your friend is legal in TN with her handgun unloaded, with ammo separate from the gun, say in the trunk in her luggage. You could unload before crossing one of the bridges into Memphis from West Memphis (do that at daylight or very well light area with lots of people because West Memphis is rough). A good safe place is the Hwy 118 exit..there is a Dairy Queen and Huddle House open until 10PM...if later next exit east will have a Wal Mart and well lit gas stations in West Memphis. Don't stop anywhere in Memphis city limits alone with an unloaded gun, if you don't know the area. You can have a loaded gun in your hotel room because it is your 'residence' in TN. Safe places east of Memphis for a woman to stop for gas are the Canada Rd/Lakeland, TN Exit and the Hwy 385/Airline Road Exit that is in Arlington, TN. Lakeland and Arlington are both safe suburbs outside Memphis. I'm assuming your friend will be traveling on Interstate 40 if she's passing from TX, AR, and TN.

VA: Open carry on person legal; plain view in car legal, FOPA in car legal but otherwise not concealed anywhere (person nor car). No duty to inform, OC (in car also) legal. Starting July 1st, carry in UNLOCKED glove box legal. Since OC legal (in car also), no need for separation of ammo, magazines, etc.
Any info on VA domicile(hotel)?

MD: Well, I used to live in MD myself. I remember: unloaded, locked in trunk. Ammo seperate and NOT loaded into magazines, and also locked up out of accessibility range. Basically, OK to transport; not to carry. When in your home/business, you are OK.
In MD, you can't even drive around sightseeing or shopping FOPA-style; only to and from home, range, repair shop, or business; and then only FOPA-style!
MD hotel room OK.
Easier to get an antique handgun (not an option for her right now, but maybe someone else can use it!)

DE:

NJ:

NY: Check out NY very closley. I believe once you cross their border with a handgun and no permit you're toast if they find it.
1) Travel there only under the guidelines in FOPA and
2) Never consent to any search so they won't find it anyway. (*below for FOPA rules)
OK, there HAS to be a way to at least TRANSPORT a handgun through NY. Unloaded, locked in trunk, seperate from ammo?

CT: FOPA-style only (i.e. Unloaded, locked in trunk, seperate from ammo )

MA:no legal transport of any kind possible unless going someplace where it is legal to posess it; which for an out of state resident is NOWHERE.
So, SAFEST but still not legal is FOPA and the sine que non is : dont get caught. (just like NY)

PA:

RI: (not sure what state she is entering RI from)


Still a few more states to fill in. Thanks in advance! You'all have been very helpful!

(*): FOPA Guidelines:1986 Firearms Owners Protection Act (FOPA), also known as the Mcclure-Volkmer act. TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 44 > § 926A
§ 926A. Interstate transportation of firearms
Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver’s compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.


C-

p.s. everyone who posted at the old thread; "You guys are awesome!" says she. http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=519603

 

[THE DARK KNIGHT]

NJ law makes possession of all firearms illegal. You may only posses, transport, acquire, or use a firearm under exemption through the law either by statute or permit.

I would assume she would be OK to transport THROUGH NJ via FOPA, however, the minute she parks the car in NJ she is in trouble.

NJ laws are very poorly and vaguely written - in fact, an NJ resident going from their house to the shooting range cannot legally stop and get some food on the way home, the trip must be direct and "reasonable deviation" is not defined, and taken by most to mean only emergency stops for fuel and such. Another example is an NJ resident who holds a Florida permit cannot lock their gun up in the trunk, bring their gun to PA for a day trip, arm and disarm there and re-enter the state as lawfully carry is not a specific exemption under which someone may transport a firearm. As a non resident I have no idea but judging how harshly they view residents I doubt a non resident will be looked at very nicely.

I would strongly recommend against even thinking of transporting a gun through NJ if you plan to stop at all anywhere for any reason. I have no idea what the actual laws are or are not, they very vaguely written, and interpreted very harshly.

 

[Sam1911]

Have you looked up nra-ila.org, handgunlaw.us, and opencarry.org yet? Between the three of those sites you'll have a very clear picture of what you can and can't do with a firearm in each state.

I gave you info on PA in your other thread:

In PA that would mean that she cannot carry the gun on her person in her car (though she could if she had any carry permit from any state) but can open-carry it otherwise as long as she's not in Philly.

The most restrictive thing about non-licensed carry is this "A handgun being transported in a vehicle without a license to carry must be unloaded and must be carried under one of the exceptions listed above under ‘Carry.’' Read here for the exemptions: http://www.nraila.org/statelawpdfs/PASL.pdf but they mostly have to do with hunting, competing, going to a gunsmith's or FFL, etc. Not just driving around.

However, "Rifles and shotguns may be transported in a vehicle as long as they are unloaded."

Here's some more, excerpted from PA's TITLE 18 Chapter 61 Subchapter A "UNIFORM FIREARMS ACT" I've deleted from the exemptions list anything that obvoiusly doesn't apply, but she'd still be much better off with a permit...

§ 6106. Firearms not to be carried without a license.
a.Offense defined. -- Any person who carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license under this chapter commits a felony of the third degree.
b.Exceptions. -- The provisions of subsection (a) shall not apply to:
...
4.Any persons engaged in target shooting with rifle, pistol, or revolver, if such persons are at or are going to or from their places of assembly or target practice and if, while going to or from their places of assembly or target practice, the cartridges or shells are carried in a separate container and the rifle, pistol or revolver is unloaded.
...
...
8.Any person while carrying a firearm unloaded and in a secure wrapper from the place of purchase to his home or place of business, or to a place of repair or back to his home or place of business, or in moving from one place of abode or business to another or from his home to a vacation or recreational home or dwelling or back, or to recover stolen property under section 6111.1(b)(4) (relating to Pennsylvania State Police) or to a location to which the person has been directed to surrender firearms under 23 Pa.C.S. § 6108 (relating to relief) or back upon return of the surrendered firearm.
...
11.Any person while carrying a firearm in any vehicle, which person possesses a valid and lawfully issued license for that firearm which has been issued under the laws of the United States or any other state.

 

[geekWithA.45]

On the assumption that you're traveling *through* these states:


NJ: Institutionally hostile to guns and their owners. Extreme caution necessary.

FOPA only, don't stop except for gas, potty & if necessary, sleep in a hotel.

Ironically, if you have to stop overnight, case law suggests that you must leave your arms in your trunk, rather than bring them into the hotel room with you.

Recommendation: STHU re: arms, in full accordance with the 4th & 5th, if you're encountering any representatives of law enforcement. There is no requirement that you notify anyone of anything, and broaching the topic will never help you. Do nothing to provide plausible reasonable cause, do not interfere with searches, but verbally advise them that you do not consent to searches *if* they start asking if they can root around your car.

PA: Outside of Philly, much more enlightened, but still use FOPA mode.

If you are traveling *to* these states, it gets stickier.

PA more or less treats arms as a right, and explicitly recognizes self defense as a reason to openly possess a handgun when not in a car, so one must contort much less to justify your possession at your destination.

It actually *is* possible to legally bring a gun *to* NJ, but basically you have to be going directly to or from certain shooting activities, and there's a bunch of twisty gotchas.

 

[TedP]

I may be missing the point...

Why are "we" condoning "don't get caught" as a viable solution to this problem?

We might not agree with NY or MA laws, but it is not very High Road to suggest they be ignored.

In this case, MA is the destination state. So FOPA does not apply and possession of a handgun by the traveler is prohibited. Sad but true.

Check on the taser legality too. Just to be safe.

 

[geekWithA.45]

In case it's not clear:

My recommendation to avail yourself of your 4th and 5th amendment protected rights and STHU presumes that you are in actual compliance with the statutes.

My intention was to point out that in institutionally hostile environments, mere compliance with the law is insufficient to guarantee your unmolested safety.

As a lawyer once pointed out, "sometimes, being subjected to the legal process that ultimately exonerates you IS the punishment."