Traveling faster than a bullet.

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leadcounsel

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I'm always amazed at space travel. Today marked the liftoff of Atlantis at mere speeds of between 5000 feet per second and 10,000 feet per second during the liftoff!

Imagine traveling faster than a bullet.
 
... and in orbit they are travelling approx. 26,000 fps (37,000 fps to go to the moon)! Accelerate a normal bullet to that speed on or near the earth's surface and it'll be vaporized before it reaches the target.
 
Fastest aircraft...
sr7111.jpg




Is faster than most rifle bullets.


Advertised speed for the SR-71 Blackbird is Mach 3.5 or near 2500-mph or ~3800 ft./sec.

Estimates are that it will really go much faster.

Set a record for flight from Los Angels to Washington D.C. 2400 mi. 1Hr 7 min.

It goes so fast and heats up so much that it is longer by several inches when its at cruise speed.
 
tis maybe a (is a dumb) ? but if a bullet were fired from that space shuttle would it even exit the gun? I know that if the gun is on board it is now stationary within the shuttle so yes it would exit ,but if the gun itself were moving that fast what then?:D
 
Then the velocity of the gun would be added to the velocity of the bullet, minus recoil. Even a tiny bullet would actually be a bit of thrust.:)
 
My thought is yes the bullet would exit gun (assuming inside ship) as it would accelerate relative to speed ship is moving. Remember the Earth is moving around the sun at a fair clip. It is also revolving. Also little/no friction if in vacume. :) I would think (assuming well sealed rd of ammo) there would be enough air for expansion. Volocity should be impressive. My thought is friction of barrel would still be there but bullet wouldn't have to push air out of barrel infront of it (if in vacume) plus no air to slow it down should be good for some more FPS. :)
First time I got arms length to SR-71 (BTW do you know it was NOT named the SR-71? IIRC it was the RS-71 but the President gave a speach calling it the SR-71 so they renamed it rather then let everyone know the President was wrong) Far cry from today where any mis-read/pronounciation/statement is highlighted for yrs.
Anyway I was saying the first time I got arms length from a SR-71 I was amazed how SMALL it was. For some reason I envisioned a LARGE plane. (likely because of motor specs/other info I had seen in my youth) Oh the stoies of some of those planes. They made them then destroyed the equipment used to make parts.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SR-71_Blackbird said:
The USAF had planned to redesignate the A-12 aircraft as the B-71 as the successor to the B-70 Valkyrie, which had two test Valkyries flying at Edwards AFB, California. The B-71 would have a nuclear capability of 6 bombs. The next destination was RS-71 (Reconnaissance-Strike) when the strike capability became an option. However, then USAF Chief of Staff Curtis LeMay preferred the SR designation and wanted the RS-71 to be named SR-71. Before the Blackbird was to be announced by President Johnson on February 29, 1964, LeMay lobbied to modify Johnson's speech to read SR-71 instead of RS-71. The media transcript given to the press at the time still had the earlier RS-71 designation in places, creating the myth that the president had misread the plane's designation [3] [4].
... but nevertheless, OT
 
IMO, the bullet would exit the gun even if both were in freefall in open space, since the mass of the gun is greater than the mass of the bullet.
 
"fastest aircraft"...

It heats up all right - before flight it leaks constantly - designed to fit tight only after it heats up from air friction. Took off and immediately air refueled to top off the tanks.

Good friend of mine was a crew chief on them - he told of watching visiting officers standing around in leaking fuel, not knowing what it was; when told, they would start a funny little dance out to dry tarmac.. of course the fuel is specially formulated, requiring high compression before it will light up - the stuff on the ground is safe to throw lit matches onto.... not that you would want to of course.
 
Re destruction of the Blackbird tooling, that was another of Robert STRANGE MacNamara's "genius" moments. Sorta like our VP when he was SecDef and the Tomcat tooling....

We coulda had an unstoppable tactical bomber, and we prototyped a superfighter (YF-12A; Google it) that could take out anything in the sky and perhaps some ballistic missiles, built on Blackbird frames except for Mac the Knife getting in the way.

To keep this gun-related, General Welch, Air Force Chief of Staff, on the Blackbird: "It can't fire a gun and doesn't carry a bomb, and I don't want it." Emphasis added.

Shortsightedness and terminal lack of vision seem to be mandatory prerequisites for any top-level office related to DoD, based on my personal observation over the years...

Kelly Johnson's Kelly: More Than My Share of It All and Ben Rich's Skunk Works are interesting reads, from the two men most responsible for these remarkable machines. The black paint was a key piece of Rich's contribution.
 
Maybe, instead of asking about firing out of a spaceship, you should ask about firing off the end of a train...backwards!

Imagine a rifle that fires a projectile that travels at 3,000 fps, and the train itself moving at 3000 fps. Would the bullet travel 0 units of distance and fall to the ground? Hmmmmm...:scrutiny:
 
Would the catridge need oxygen to fire?

Wouldn't the catridge need usable oxygen in order to fire? Remember that fires need fuel, oxygen, and heat to live. If you had a gun in space, wouldn't that take away your oxygen supply? Just a thought experiment, what if you were to fire a gun while under water? Would that work? If water gets in and does things, wouldn't an extremely powerful vacuum of space do things to the firing ability also?
 
You can fire most firearms underwater, though self-loading models will not slide fast enough and most likely will stove pipe every round. I've personally seen revolvers fire flawlessly underwater, all 6 rounds and have no damage that I can see.
 
Depending on which direction you fired the gun, the bullet's velocity would be added to or subtracted from the shuttle's velocity or have an angular element proportional to the shuttle's velocity. If fired in the atmosphere, the bullet would quickly slow down due to wind resistance. If fired in space, it would continue on its trajectory until acted upon by an outside force, i.e., gravity. The recoil impulse would impart momentum to the shooter and the shuttle proportional to the mass and velocity of the expelled projectile. Gunpowder contains its own oxidant, so it could fire in a vacuum.

Sounds like a great experiment for the next shuttle flight. :D If the Russians can hit a golf ball into orbit from the space station, why not shoot a 30.06? :evil:
 
The interesting idea is if you fired a projectile to the rear of the space flight path the projectile would appear to be flying away from you. If the flight speed is faster than the projectiles exit speed it would actually be flying backwards at the speed of the exit velocity minus the aircraft velocity.

Hard to image shooting a 30-06 at the projectile actually be flying in reverse.
 
Wouldn't the catridge need usable oxygen in order to fire? Remember that fires need fuel, oxygen, and heat to live. If you had a gun in space, wouldn't that take away your oxygen supply?
No, the propellant contains both fuel and oxygen in order to create the rapid expansion of gases necessary to propel the bullet; it's sealed within the catridge-case and does not require any outside source of oxygen in order to burn.
 
You can fire most firearms underwater, though self-loading models will not slide fast enough and most likely will stove pipe every round. I've personally seen revolvers fire flawlessly underwater, all 6 rounds and have no damage that I can see.

That's interesting. Thanks for the information.
 
Relative velocity

Maybe, instead of asking about firing out of a spaceship, you should ask about firing off the end of a train...backwards!

Imagine a rifle that fires a projectile that travels at 3,000 fps, and the train itself moving at 3000 fps. Would the bullet travel 0 units of distance and fall to the ground? Hmmmmm...
True… but only with respect to a stationary observer standing alongside the train track -- not with respect to an observer in the train. With respect to a passenger in the train the bullet would leave the rifle and the train at a velocity of 3000 fps. The bullet would indeed fall straight down to the ground as viewed by the stationary observer, but as viewed by a passenger in the train the bullet would fall down in a long gentle arc.

Let us assume that it takes the bullet 3 seconds to fall to the ground in front of the trackside bystander (we are ignoring the element of friction). With respect to a train passenger the bullet would travel in the air for 3 seconds, and would be 9000 feet behind the train when it fell to the ground right at the feet of the bystander at trackside.

Ditto with the similar space shuttle example. The velocity of an object is not an absolute. It can be measured only with respect to some other point.

Even the term “stationary observer” can be very misleading, as there is in theory no such thing as a stationary observer on our little earth. The earth is moving around the sun, the sun is moving in the galaxy, which is moving in space, etc. Some would say there is nothing at all which is stationary. Even if there were, the question then becomes, “stationary with respect to what?”

An example often used to point out this law of physics looks at a roadside sign which announces the speed limit to be 70 mph. That sign does not make any sense at all. According to relativity, the sign should read, “The magnitude of the relative velocity between your car and the pavement must be not more than 70 mph.”

Explain this to the judge next time. Good luck. :D
 
Just for the sake of argument, a bullet fired horizontally from a rifle, say 6ft off of the ground, will impact the ground in less than a second.

Falling objects obey the '32ft. per sec' rule of acceleration so 6ft. will be only a fraction of the whole 32ft and, regardless of forward velocity, the drop is the same.

And, re:SR-71 talk above.......I had the pleasure of overhauling the J-58's just before the cancellation of the program. We actually 'rejuvinated' many parts with build dates in the late FIFTIES!! Wonderful engines and will always be my favorite.

No jet engine I have ever heard sounds anything like the J-58. It has a huge rotating assembly compared to more modern engines and so cannot spin the 30+K that makes the normal high pitched whine.

Blackbirds made a ROAR of relatively low frequency due to their low RPM and the huge afterburner being fed by 8 large compressor bypass tubes made it very effective...especially at speed where they ran virtually as a ramjet. Power production was not the speed limiting factor. Hull temps were.

Another little known technical tidbit was the method they employed to slow the intake air down below supersonic speed so it could be injested by the engine.

The intake spike could move fore and aft and would create a supersonic shock cone with its' tip that, if the length was correct for the speed/altitute/pressures, the wave would hit just inside the inlet mouth. It then would bounce inward to the cone and then back outward to the inlet again as it made its' way into the engine.

This 'shock diffusion' slowed the air down and increased its' pressure and allowed the legendary performance at high speeds.
 
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