Treating Inside of Barrel

[JDinFbg]

I found an article on the web where the author talked about a product called Micro Slick that he was using on the inside of his barrel to decrease the build-up of copper fouling. When I do web searches, all I find are products from Cerakote, but they all refer to treating external parts like bolts, carriers, slides, etc. I am in the process of removing some extensive copper fouling from a rifle barrel. I know from views through a borescope that there is a fair amount of pitting in the rifling. I'm afraid that this pitting is going to accentuate the accumulation of copper fouling as I shoot the rifle. I'm trying to identify if there is a product that can be used inside barrels to perhaps seal up some of the pits, reduce friction, and make it less likely that copper fouling will accumulate in my barrel. Does anyone have experience with products that would do this?

 

[Dave DeLaurant]

This old THR thread might be worth reviewing: https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/can-a-pitted-bore-shoot-well.536577/

 

[792mauser]

Copper jacket material, lead and cupro-nickel usually work best in my surplus sewer bores.

 

[js8588]

Use a nitriding service

 

[Demi-human]

Use a nitriding service

Nitriding doesn’t build on the material or fill any gaps or pits like plating can.
Chrome plate it?

Of course, if one was going to remove the barrel to do a treatment of some sort, they could put a new barrel on instead.

Bigger, softer bullets are the only way I know of.
Or don’t clean it all the way...

 

[Nature Boy]

The last thing I do after cleaning my barrels is run a wet patch soaked with colloidal graphite (brand name: Lock Ease https://www.jbtools.com/american-gr...MIxpuU56et7AIVSuWzCh0-QgvcEAQYAyABEgIL6vD_BwE )

I do it to help put the first cold bore shot in the same POI as the rest of the group. It might also reduce some coppering by reducing the friction of the bullet on a clean untreated barrel, but that’s a guess on my part with no testing to back it up.

 

[ThomasT]

I can't help with the pitting problem but I know that Barnes CR-10 really removes copper when I need it to.

Just curious but what gun are we talking about?

 

[JDinFbg]

Just curious but what gun are we talking about?

A 94 Winchester with 26" octagon barrel chambered for 30 W.C.F.

 

[Nature Boy]

Take a look at page 4, post #100.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...cleaning-with-more-teslong-pics.860996/page-4

I walk through my experience with Tubb Final Finish fire lapping process. You might give that some thought

 

[Dave DeLaurant]

Nitriding doesn’t build on the material or fill any gaps or pits like plating can. Chrome plate it?

I recall reading somewhere (P.O. Ackley, I think) that a chrome plated bore needs to be originally dimensioned for the process during manufacture. Not sure whether newer hard chroming processes have improved to the point where this is no longer true, but having had several firearms hard-chromed (mostly Armoloy) I don't believe this type of coating can fill pits enough to matter. An email to these guys will provide a definitive answer: [email protected]

The old-timey approach to a worn and/or pitted bore was 'freshening', which involved recutting the rifling slightly deeper and loading a larger diameter bullet afterwards. https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/freshening-an-original-rifle-barrel.776102/

The process appears to be uncommon with cartridge rifles, but it is not unknown. About a minute into this video, the author mentions the refreshed rifling on his venerable Werndl rifle:



Another option is reboring to a larger caliber, 30-06 to 35 Whelen for example. It's pricey. I would imagine the OP would prefer a less drastic option, cost-wise.

FWIW (and if nothing else suggested here helps) a full-on rebarreling job is probably a cheaper option than a rebore job.

 

[Bfh_auto]

Take a look at page 4, post #100.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...cleaning-with-more-teslong-pics.860996/page-4

I walk through my experience with Tubb Final Finish fire lapping process. You might give that some thought

It's nice to see before and after bore scope pictures along with groups.
I did something similar in a Turkish Mauser that had been left uncleaned after shooting surplus ammo. I was going to trash the barrel so I shot 3 cast bullets with fine valve grinding compound in the lube grooves. Followed by aluminum polish. It quit leading so I kept the barrel.
I wish I had a bore scope to record the change.

 

[Nature Boy]

I wish I had a bore scope to record the change

Teslong rifle borescope on Amazon.

 

[Bfh_auto]

Teslong rifle borescope on Amazon.

Thanks. 47.99 is cheap.

 

[JDinFbg]

Teslong rifle borescope on Amazon.

I just bought mine on Amazon, and there was an $8 coupon which brought the final price down to $34.15. I ordered on Friday and got it the next day. It works great and gives a good view of the inside of the barrel.

 

[JDinFbg]

Take a look at page 4, post #100.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...cleaning-with-more-teslong-pics.860996/page-4

I walk through my experience with Tubb Final Finish fire lapping process. You might give that some thought

Great info. I've heard of the Tubb lapping bullets, but had read mixed reviews. Once I get all the copper out of my barrel and can see what the steel actually looks like, I may give these a try if the pitting looks really bad and removing the years' of copper fouling does not make it shoot better. At that point, I won't have anything to lose.

 

[JDinFbg]

I've gotten most (but not all) of the copper fouling out of my barrel and took a look with the borescope camera. I've attached a few pics showing the condition of the barrel. You can see a fair amount of pitting. I estimate that most of the worst pitting is in the region 5-7" ahead of the chamber, but there is pitting to
some degree for most of the length of the barrel. These are the pits I'd like to seal up.

 

[Demi-human]

Not great, but I’ve seen worse...

How does it shoot?

 

[JDinFbg]

Not great, but I’ve seen worse...

How does it shoot?

Not worth a darn!! I haven't found a load that will give less than 5-6" 5-shot groups at 100 yds. I've tried 3 different bullets and 2 different powders. I bought the borescope camera so I could look inside to see if I had something fundamentally wrong, before putting more rounds down the barrel. I found extensive copper fouling (most of the inside was a copperish-gold color) and the pits. The first step will be to clean up all the copper. After that, I am considering the Tubb fire lapping bullets that Nature Boy noted in post #9 to this thread. I've also got a lead on a product called JTI-BORE Shield that I may consider once I get the rifling cleaned up. I've attached the instruction sheet I received from the provider. This is the kind of stuff I was looking fore when I started this post.

 

[Nature Boy]

I don't think there's a way to seal up those pits.

 

[JDinFbg]

I don't think there's a way to seal up those pits.

You are probably correct, at least for the big ones. However, I'm going to do the Tubb Final Finish you described then treat with the JTI Bore Shield to at least see if I can minimize the copper fouling and make it easier to clean. I don't think I have much to lose.

 

[Nature Boy]

Sounds like a good plan

 

[d2wing]

Getting the Copper out is the biggest step toward improvement in my opinion.

 

[JDinFbg]

Getting the Copper out is the biggest step toward improvement in my opinion.

I think your are probably correct. I finally got all the copper out (well, as much as I think I can get out). I summarized my efforts in posts #32 and #38 in the following thread: https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/bore-cleaner.870686/page-2#post-11673294
My concern is that if I don't do some further work to try to smooth up the bore a little and seal it, it will just be a copper magnet.

 

[Poper]

This: https://www.qmaxxproducts.com/product/blu/ is a product that lays down a microscopic layer of extremely dense material that bonds to metal after the vehicle flashes off. According to a testing engineer I spoke to, the product is not a solvent and it actually breaks the molecular bond of the fouling to the steel. (It has solvents in it that are used as a vehicle.) It takes more than a single application, about 6 or 7, to be most effective. It won't fill in the pits, but it might make the steel more 'slippery' and less likely to foul.

RE: your accuracy issue - You may have one of these guns that is just super fussy and will only shoot what it likes. I have a couple of those rifles. One is a .308 that will only shoot 165 grain Sierra Game Kings with IMR4350 well. Everything else is so-so or perfectly lousy. I have been loading for this gun for almost 30 years now and came to the conclusion 20 years ago that 4350 and 165 gr. SGK are just fine.

 

[WVRJ]

Shoot it a few times after you clean it and look in there after every shot.I bet the pits won't show up after 5 shots.