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Trend going forward with gun control laws - Pumps and Levers to experience resurgence?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by DannyLandrum, Nov 9, 2018.

  1. DannyLandrum

    DannyLandrum Member

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    With very-strict laws like the one that just passed by voter initiative in Washington (proving why republic>democracy), making all semi-autos highly regulated, are non-semi-auto repeaters, especially pumps such as the Remington 7600 and 7615 poised for a resurgence? Washington is not the first state to restrict semi-autos and won't be the last.

    I can see a definitely uptick in sales in the future from buyers looking for fast self-defense rifles like the 7615 and such. Some AR15 maker made a pump for Calif. as well, IIRC, which looked pretty good. These laws could be good for that maker and big green, with proven designs already tooled up for..... at least until those states go full-feinstein and ban pumps like Germany and Australia have.

    Here you go (speaking of rain rifles): https://www.remington.com/rifles/pump-action/model-7600/model-7600

    Maybe the IMI Timberwolf will make a comeback! I can hope.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2018
  2. DannyLandrum

    DannyLandrum Member

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    Here - this is the one I'm thinking of:

     
  3. Texas10mm

    Texas10mm Member

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    There's a hope that a case will make it to the Supreme Court and some of this nonsense will be thrown out.
     
  4. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

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    I don’t think the relative volume of sales to gun-hating states is sufficient to turn the tide for conventional manufacturers. Sure, a few silly niche options will be out there, but they won’t ever gain favor over a bolt action alternative in non-semiautomatic states.
     
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  5. Robert

    Robert Administrator Staff Member

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    That's cute, you actually think they'll stop at semi autos. Gun control is not about guns and they won't stop until we are completely disarmed.
     
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  6. earlthegoat2

    earlthegoat2 Member

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    I agree but disagree. Look at Pennsylvania as an example. Semi auto rifles were not allowed for hunting there for many years. (at least deer hunting that I know of). More pump rifles were sold there than most other states and I believe that is why Remington still makes pump centerfires and stopped making semi autos. Search pumpnrifles on Gunbroker and you will see many are being sold from PA as they recently legalized semi auto rifles there.

    I know this is not your point but I make this point because at least in PA, many folks who would have used a semi auto otherwise probably opted for the pump rifle and not a bolt action.

    However your point is also spot on in that the absence of sales of semi autos to one state will not hinder any of the major manufacturers status quo.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2018
  7. AlexanderA
    • Contributing Member

    AlexanderA Member

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    Looking at the gun-control experience overseas, in places like Australia, pump-action rifles (and shotguns) were banned before bolt actions. I would say that investing in pump actions as a fallback for when semiautos are banned may prove to be ultimately futile.

    If you're going to hedge in this way, buy a few muzzleloaders while you're at it.
     
  8. Slamfire

    Slamfire Member

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    The text and discussion of the Washington State Measure can be found here:

    https://ballotpedia.org/Washington_...ship_and_Purchase_Requirements_Measure_(2018)

    There are storage requirements, safety tests, all placed to make it a burden to exercise a Constitutional right.

    In terms of predicting the future, I recently read that there have been 307 mass shootings in the last 311 days. Constitution or not, if a democratic form of Government feels there is a real and present danger, and even people feel strongly on the topic, the body politic will eliminate that danger. Democracies can be very illiberal against things they feel are a threat.

    I do believe that there will be more semi auto bans, then followed by bans on weapons with multi round capacity, and it will go on till all weapons are banned or forbidden. Just take a look at the knife bans in the United Kingdom, and China. The Brits have these slogans :"Bin a knife and save a life".

    When those bans come, you will have to decide to obey, or be crushed. I recommend leaving early adopter states and live in those states that are more freedom loving, gun friendly states.
     
  9. jmr40

    jmr40 Member

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    I don't see anything like that happening. But if it did, I predict bolt guns in a "scout" type configuration would be more popular than either pumps or levers. The military tested the theory of using lever actions back prior to WW-I and found bolt guns the better option. Levers are only faster if you're standing up shooting and exposed to enemy fire. And not significantly faster at that. Bolt guns are faster to operate from prone or from behind cover. They are faster to reload, especially with a DBM and even if limited to 5 rounds. Bolt guns are also more accurate, lighter, more reliable, and cost less.

    Pumps have all the same negatives as levers. Although they can be almost as accurate as a bolt gun.
     
  10. KYregular

    KYregular Member

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    Typical west coast ideology. Not being complacent, but where I come from even most on the liberal side are more more gun friendly than the conservatives out there.
     
  11. Pat Riot

    Pat Riot Member

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    You obviously don’t have a clue about Conservatives here on the West Coast. We don’t have the luxury of casting aspersions at others as we have a hard enough time minding our own business without much support from our fellow conservatives elsewhere in this country.
     
  12. eastbank

    eastbank Member

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    when one of these(7615) was offered to me at a very good price, I bought it. I have not shot it to much, but I have ran 50 rounds thru it and it worked with no problems at all.
     

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  13. greg_r

    greg_r Member

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    I have always thought that we will eventually be regulated to wheels and bolts. With the confirmation of Kavanaugh, we at least have a better chance IF a case even makes it to the US Supreme Court. I am hoping that we get at least one more constitution friendly Supreme Court judge confirmed.

    With the progressive socialists our society is producing I just do not see our rights standing as they are. We have all seen deterioration of our rights in the past few years. My son in law is a progressive socialist. He enjoys shooting and believes that I should be able to own any firearm I want, as long as I am vetted first. He also believes that all gun owners should be licensed and all firearms registered, just like a car he says. He is a gun owner, has a 9mm and is planning to get his CCW.

    My son in law is also a conservative progressive socialist.....is there even such a thing.....and most are not of his mindset I don’t think. The lever actions are coming under scrutiny in Australia, which is seen as a model for gun control. Spurred by the lever action shotguns I think. I think the lever actions could be the next “black gun”. I also think that because they are often recommended as viable options for people who live in “less gun friendly” states, the spotlight is shining just a little brighter on them.
     
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  14. Picher

    Picher Member

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    I've never owned CF semi-auto or pump rifles, but do own semi-auto shotguns for bird hunting, along with O/Us. Being an accuracy-nut and handloader, bolt-actions prevail and though I could have shot a few more deer with a semi, I'd rather not shoot if my chances aren't great for one-shot quick-kill on animals for meat (and wildlife overpopulation prevention).
     
  15. Grunt

    Grunt Member

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    I love my lever actions and own several of them. However, while I’m always watchful about a federal AWB like back in the dark days of the 90s, I’m not worried about a state level ban on semi-autos. North Dakota is so red (as in no Democrat other than a few in local races this year won a single seat and we voted out Heitkamp as well) that I don’t see any serious attempt at gun control laws being introduced much less passsed here.
     
  16. AlexanderA
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    AlexanderA Member

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    Don't think that living in a pro-gun state insures your safety. If enough states follow the example of New York, California, etc., a federal AWB won't be far behind. And the antis have learned from their "mistakes" in the 1994-2004 ban, and the next one will be a lot stricter. I honestly think we'll see this in the next 10 years, unless it's invalidated by the Supreme Court -- and that is not a sure thing, even with a conservative majority.
     
  17. GEM

    GEM Moderator Staff Member

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    Let's not start insulting folks because they do not toe the political line in areas outside of gun rights. Ideological purity on areas outside of gun rights is not necessary and will lead to a close if you want to demand such.
     
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  18. ColoradoMinuteMan

    ColoradoMinuteMan Member

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    In the UK they've already come up with better ways to solve this issue.





     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2018
  19. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

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    Exercise your right to vote, supporting your rights. Take a few hours out of your life each quarter to write letters and emails, and make phone calls to your local, state, and federal representation. Take time to offer exposure and positive experiences with firearms to neutral or near-opposition acquaintances and colleagues. We are a democratic republic, our laws are written by representatives duly elected by us, the citizens of this Nation. No law exists which we did not bring forth upon ourselves, and no law shall stand which we, as the collective majority, did not support.

    So I recommend, as I do in most of your posts similar to this one, that you spend your efforts to prevent such laws from passing, rather than preparing yourself to skirt them should you allow yourself to get steamrolled.
     
  20. ColoradoMinuteMan

    ColoradoMinuteMan Member

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    I was born and raised in CA, the home of most of the people and places that I grew up loving. Those who live in places like CA are the recipients of more than their fair share of arrogance and condescension. Those of you say things themed as "you should just move to a free state; by trying to find alternative featureless or non-semi-auto variants you're rolling over and letting them take your rights; you should spend the time you spend looking for alternatives being an activist," in my opinion aren't being helpful to anyone. There are many died in the wool conservatives who are living in these blue states, who want to remain law-abiding citizens, who don't want to do something that will put them in the position of being prevented from exercising even more of their God-given rights. These people look to solutions that allow them to continue to protect themselves, hunt, exercise their 2nd Amendment rights to the greatest extent possible while not putting themselves in danger of breaking local laws. You can do all of this, while ALSO being an advocate and activist. I'm not sure why people treat these as somehow being mutually exclusive.

    CA is a leading indicator of what may and, without considerable revolution, will happen to the rest of the country in the next few decades. CA didn't happen overnight and these safe havens are slowly being overrun. Look at Texas which is now a purple state for God's sake. All of us armchair activists who feel comfortable in our "free states," pointing out the flaws of those who have "given up," "let this happen" and don't have enough ambition to uproot their lives and move to a "free state" will one day look back and ask why this has happened to them.

    I agree in premise with what Varmenterror said above, if you aren't doing something to slow the pendulum, and become an activist in your own way, you can't expect anything to ever change in your favor. However, I don't believe it has to be mutually exclusive of also looking looking at alternative firearm solutions that keep you well armed and out of jail.
     
  21. adcoch1

    adcoch1 Member

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    Could not have said it better myself! I was born in Western Washington and have lived here most of my life. I am very conservative and very pro gun, and I talk with almost everyone I come in contact with about the dangers of losing our constitutional rights. I can't let the subject pass without pointing out the dangers of gun control and the places that have pursued it and how they just fall apart. I have changed a lot of people's minds from anti gun to at least gun tolerant over the years, but one guy can't compete with millions of dollars worth of propaganda on tv and radio. If you are in a free state beware: Washington was free once, and it wasn't very long ago either...
     
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  22. KYregular

    KYregular Member

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    True for the most part. But there is no doubt the west coast has been more draconian for years, along with New York, compared to many other states. Yes, a federal AWB is possible, but theirs is a STATE issue. SCOTUS is getting stronger, and if it gets any stronger I believe our rights will be stronger as well. The libs will be the ones concerned with Roe V. Wade being overturned. Like I said, I'm not complacent, but not gonna live with a dark cloud over my head constantly.
     
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  23. KYregular

    KYregular Member

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    Not referring to YOU as s conservative, but your elected officials. Believe me, I feel for you guys, lots of good people without proper representation. I respect your fortitude, I could not live in one of those nanny states.
     
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  24. Pat Riot

    Pat Riot Member

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    I guess I misinterpreted your post earlier. Apologies. I guess I get a little testy sometimes. :)
     
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  25. KYregular

    KYregular Member

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    It's all good, didn't mean to come across tjat way. I stand with all Pro 2A people 50 for 50.
     
    Pat Riot likes this.
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