Tried to convert an anti; didn't work out so well

[thechosenone]

Well we were in gov't class today and the regular teacher wasn't there so we had a substitute. He decided that we would discuss current events. What he chose was the VT shooting and gun control. He gave his stance on gun control and he said he was against owning guns for any reason. I listened to how ill informed my classmated were ie; that if you could only own so many rounds of ammunition, only LE officers can own glocks, and my favorite, that all glocks have three round burst and are made for war:banghead:
well then i told them what i thought about gun control, 2A, and CCW. All of my classmates loved it as far as i could tell, but the teachers opinion didn't change at all. He believed that gun use was out of control and that if there were no more guns than we could save hundred of murders a day. Then i told him that automobiles kill just as many people that guns do. He didn't really have anything to say to that. Right as we were really getting into it and i was making some headway the bell rang! Class dismissed, All of what i said to him had no bearing on what he thought, but i hope it might have changed the way some of my classmates think about gun control.

 

[Waywatcher]

Nice work, just keep arming yourself with facts and you'l be well prepared for the next time.

Also, far more people are killed by automobiles than guns.

 

[MD_Willington]

It was tragic in VA, but I've been wondering, how many people elsewhere in the US died that day do to;

• Drowning
• Heart disease
• Cancer
• Car crash
• Old age
• SIDS
• etcetera

Probably more than the number of those at VA Tech...

 

[Daedalus7]

All of my classmates loved it as far as i could tell

This is the good part - you helped change what sounds like a few dozen people's views. If you couldn't change the professor's mind, so what? Some people simply cannot be convinced to listen to reason.

So good job

 

[Chad]

Don't feel bad or think it didn't do any good...and certainly don't feel discouraged!
This is how it's done...one step at a time, calm and rational.

You've made a good start with some of the students...maybe you'll get some responses privately.

Don't :banghead: over the ones with blinders on...spend your time and effort were it will do the most good.

 

[Zundfolge]

Then i told him that automobiles kill just as many people that guns do.

Actually cars kill A LOT MORE people than guns.

 

[gunNoob]

doesn't hurt to try though.

some antis don't want to hear facts. What they think is right is what they will always believe... stupid.

I have class tonight, I really hope we talk about gun control because I want to inform everyone as you did

 

[SamTuckerMTNMAN]

wtg!

way to go, good on ya.

thanks fr doing your part. Its hard sometimes to not just sit and be quiet, but then again, our fight is truly for the safety of the entire country for the future as well. Those students included. I'm doing my part as well. Keep up the good work and know you planted mental seeds.....


*the news is really piss*** me off today, thanks for the uplift

st

 

[Dex]

You tried...

And in reality that's the best that you can do...
I've often found that the more intelligent the person the more they seem to think that reason can overcome violence. .. Yea, we know that that's wrong. I mean millions slaughtered throughout history is not wrong.. but they REFUSE to believe it.:banghead: ... accepting their pretty lie, over the ugly truth....
The worst part of it all is.... if people just got it through their heads that their safty is first and formost THEIR OWN JOB, then it would make this a lot easier for people like us, and things would start to turn around...
There I go with that wishful thinking again...

 

[gunsmith]

you obviously didn't try hard enough

You have to start stalking him, corner him and taking stuff from him.
He will then wish he had a gun and our mission will be a success!

 

[Pixel]

It's frustrating, isn't it? I had a similar discussion on another forum and the conversation kept coming back to, "Your life must be horrible to have you so paranoid about your safety," "If I get in trouble I'm confident that I can call 911 and be protected," and most annoying of all, "But the only purpose a gun has is to kill people!" I can't imagine how these people are so blissful in their ignorance.

 

[Oleg Volk]

The teacher acted as loyal opposition, giving you a springboard for educating the classmates. I think this was good.

 

[Zundfolge]

Don't ever expect to change the mind of someone you're debating with.


For the most part debates are for changing the minds of the audience, not your opponent.

In that regard, All of my classmates loved it as far as i could tell... is pretty darn close to victory.

 

[grampster]

Doctors kill more patients each year than those who die by firearms.

Can't give you a link, but there was an article in our local paper some time ago regarding that statistic.

 

[hso]

You can't convert someone in front of the people they have responsibility for and authority over. You can convert a peer. You can convert a person in a "superior" position when it is just the two of you. You can not expect to challenge someone in that superior position while in front of those they are responsible for. You did well if you focused on the other students to educate them and change their minds.

 

[Zen21Tao]

It is also hard to convert someone that insists on elevating their "feeling" on something above the logic, reason and facts related to that thing.

From a psychological standpoint, many people's entire self image, and with it their self esteem, is tied to their feelings. For someone to consciously admit that their "feelings" about something may be inconsistent with the true nature of that thing could, in turn, force that person to realize that their image of their self could be wrong (inconsistent with how others see them).

The best way I have found to argue someone like this it to convince them to reframe their argument based on a foundation of logic and reason. This allows them retain their self-image even if the find their view on an issue is wrong. The best way I have found to do this is by first showing them that your feelings are just as valid as their feelings are. For them to discount your feelings means that you too are justified in discounting theirs. You are left with a viewpoint where either both feelings are equally justifiable or equally discountable.

Then present then with a solution in which they see that only way to resolve this impasse is to agree to allow logical reason to be the foundation. Each side can gather its facts and present them in a logical fashion. The most "reasonable" argument will then be the one best support by facts and logic.

 

[hockeybum]

yeah, same thing happens with me in my government class.... and chemistry..... but just keep stating your points, dont igve up on them cause eventually they'll hear the voice of reason, as a matter of fact, im presenting a project to my class tomorrow about concealed weapons in school tomorrow.... this should go well.....

 

[ATW525]

He believed that gun use was out of control

If that was really true, then the headlines this week would be reading, "Virginia Tech Student Pulls Gun; Shot Dead"

 

[jpk1md]

The Anti's generally speaking appeal to the EMOTIONAL side of folks and 90% of the time if you go in armed with the FACTS and present a rational, calm, professional argument then the rational people in the room "get it"

Of course there is NO argument known to man (or woman) that is effective against a "Hysterical Mom" armed to the teeth with her "Feelings"

 

[Tsgtbob]

Another anectdote.

I'm way past college age, but recently I saw (with my own eyes) an Anti converted.
I volunteer as an instructor at my local NWTF Women in the Outdoors program (photography, car care, and astronomy, don't ask how I got such a strange skill set) and at a recent event, we had an Anti in attendance.

She was totally anti gun, had never even held one, let alone had range time. One of her stations was, you guessed it, .22 rifle. After a lot of coaching, (and an open mind on her part) she said "I have to get one of these!"
This is just the kind of program that can change minds.
(WARNING! SHAMELESS PLUG HERE!
)
Get involved with programs such as WITO, JAKES, Wheelin' Sportsmen, local High School rifle marksmanship teams (We got's 'em here!!!) and support the efforts!!!!

You will not regret it, and may even make a few new friends in the process!

 

[Whitewolf 508]

Conversion

I convinced an "anti"that worked with me in a dramatic way.

I advised her that the Police Department(part time job) I worked for has a jurisdiction of only 1 square mile and an average response time of 3 minutes. With her permissionand with some invited observers, I put my hand on the back of her neck and had her time 3 minutes. She started squirming at around 1 minute and got real uncomfortable at around 2 minutes. By the 3 minute mark, she was almost frantic.

I then told her to think of hands around the front of her throat squeezing her air off. I reminded her that the jurisdiction that she lived in was 20 square miles with a response time of over 10 minutes. She was impressed as were the observers. The following Monday she came in with her pistol permit application and asked for assistance in filling it out. Three of the observers did likewise.

Within 90 days, all had their permits and spent several linch hours "shopping". They were all smart enough to follow my recommendations to get some professional training also.

 

[Ratzinger_p38]

Being a Californian by birth, I have alot of liberal friends - I find it is easy to convert them by starting out with this - "Let me ask you: Do you trust the goverment?" Go from there. My old roommate back when I was living in Auburn, CA was converted and ended up buying a Glock 17 and an old Boy Scout .22 for target shooting - nothing fancy but hes getting started. He still doesnt understand why people "need" machine guns (I explained how class III works and how I beleive only 2 crimes have ever been commited with legal machine guns) but it is a big step from before.

 

[Leanwolf]

ZUNDFOGLE - "Actually cars kill A LOT MORE people than guns."

Yes! (National Safety Council stats.)

L.W.

 

[Koos Custodiet]

>It was tragic in VA, but I've been wondering, how many people elsewhere in the US died that day do to;

In the four days that this debate's been going on, more than 200 people have been murdered in South Africa.

And we have something like a sixth of your population.

Koos

 

[kellyj00]

I was anti-gun in high school. I just didn't know any better.
I'm here now though.