Trip this summer -- gun questions

[Deleted member 66305]

I will be consulting http://www.handgunlaw.us/ for specifics, but my summer travel plans will have me travelling through the following states (I note if I'm stopping, or passing through):

* Louisiana (passing through)
* Mississippi (passing through)
* Alabama (stopping)
* Georgia (stopping)
* South Carolina (passing through)
* North Carolina (passing through)
* Virginia (stopping, in Colonial Williamsburg)
* Washington, D.C. (stopping, day trip) (TX PERMIT NOT HONORED)
* Maryland (passing through) (TX PERMIT NOT HONORED)
* Delaware (passing through)
* Pennsylvania (stopping)

Now, my question is:

FOPA provides a "Safe Passage" provision, which I can take advantage of (at least passing through Maryland) by putting my portable car gun safe in the trunk, with the gun unloaded inside it.

Question 1: Must the ammo be stored in a separate compartment, or may it be locked in the same compartment as the gun?

I currently plan NOT to pass through DC without stopping, but to stop for a day trip there, spending 8-10 hours there before continuing on to Philadelphia.

Question 2: Would FOPA keep me legally in the clear by leaving the gun and ammo locked in the safe, in the car while I walk around?

I have traveled through Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama before while armed, and I am comfortable doing so in those states. In Georgia, because of the ambiguity of the "carrying in public places" provision, I usually leave the gun at my parents' house.

Question 3: Has Georgia state law changed to be friendlier/clearer to gun owners in the last year or so?

Question 4: I have not traveled in SC, NC, VA, DE or PA since obtaining a TX CHL -- are there any significant deviations from what I am accustomed to in Texas?

My gut instinct is to leave the gun at my parents' in Atlanta while we go on the rest of our trip -- I feel the greatest threat is the legal liability of possessing a weapon in states less civilised than Texas -- but I should get myself fully informed, first.

 

[wishin]

If the Governor signs recent legislation, carry within 1000 feet from schools, at the airport and in bars may be permitted. Under current law, Georgia's public gatherings are defined as:

A public gathering is defined and includes, but is not limited too, athletic or sporting events, churches or church functions, political rallies and/or functions, publicly owned or operated buildings(Fed, state, or local government buildings), and establishments at which alcoholic beverages are sold for consumption on the premises and it derives less than 50 percent of their total annual gross food and beverage sales from the sale of prepared meals or food (Basically bars but not restaurants with bars in them. Check their business license if you are not sure as the state license lists what is a restaurant that servers alcohol and what is a bar. Does not apply to stores that sell alcohol for consumption somewhere else, like liquor stores, gas stations, etc.). Nothing in this code section shall otherwise prohibit the carrying of a firearm in any other public place by a person licensed or permitted to do so. (This means licensees are permitted to carry in stores, malls, financial institutions, and other places open to the public) Five areas are specifically defined as public gatherings, but since the definition of a public gathering is not limited to the five areas, what else could be considered a public gathering? Attorney general Mike Bowers issued an opinion that addresses this very issue. In his definition a public gathering is "a place in which the public gathers or will gather for an particular event or function and does not apply to a place (such as a shopping mall, Walmart, grocery store, McDonalds; see State v. Burns), where people may gather even in large numbers when there is no event or function". So basically a public gathering in addition to the 5 defined areas is an event or function that the general public gathers or will gather for.

 

[Sam1911]

Question 2: Would FOPA keep me legally in the clear by leaving the gun and ammo locked in the safe, in the car while I walk around?

No. While perhaps there is a test case out there waiting to happen which will change the definitions of destination and journey, at the moment if you are planning to vist a place and hang out there, sightsee, etc. then that place is considered your destination and FOPA does not protect you.

If I was planning to make this trip that gun would remain in a locked hotel safe or room (in Virginia) while I visited the nations crapitol. That isn't the most perfect solution, but it is better than pushing your luck in DC.

(Of course, having lived near and worked in DC for years I can truly say, it sure ain't the sort of place I'd even cross the street to see, let alone make a whole day trip out of it. But others' opinions certainly vary. Maybe it's one of those things everyone does once in their lives ... just so they "get it.")

 

[Top_Gunn]

Carrying within 1000 feet of a school violates federal law unless you have a permit issued by the state in which the school is located. Because this is Federal law, it doesn't matter what the state law says except in one small way: states get to say what's a "school." The fact that the state allows you to carry because you have a permit from another state doesn't matter; your permit must be issued and your background checked by the state in which the school is located. One thing that makes this especially harsh is that day-care centers and churches may be "schools" for purposes of this law. Best to keep all guns locked in a case unless you're in your own state, and even in your own state, rifles and shotguns have to be locked in a case within 1000 feet of a school, as no state (I think) issues permits to carry these.

Weird, isn't it? But then, it violates Federal law for an employee to goof off at work (deprivation of "honest services") or for someone to fold a sheet of paper into an airplane and give it to somebody (Consumer Products Safety Improvement Act: this airplane is a new children's product so it has to be tested (to destruction) for lead and other substances). As a practical matter, it's nearly impossible to get through the day without violating some Federal statute. In the land of the free, as we used to call it.

 

[basicblur]

Might try this thread?

Folks may be suffering burnout since a similar thread referenced above is not that old.

 

[Nutgun]

You need to keep the gun (unloaded) and ammo in 2 different places. Under lock and key. Like a locked trunk and locked glove box.

I just had someone tell me this story. Gun permits for PA. Entering OHIO which doesn't honor PAs permit. They stopped right before the OHIO border and unloaded and locked the guns and ammo. After they exited OHIO in Indiana they unlocked and reloaded.

 

[carebear]

It won't keep you out of prison, but I haven't heard of any state enforcing (as in turning over to the federal prosecutor) an armed yet permitless person pulled over for, say, a traffic violation in a 1,000' radius of a school simply on the basis of it being against GFSZA.

For example, in Vermont and Alaska, and now Arizona, for permitless concealed carry, or any number of other states for permitless open carry, you can be 100% within state law carrying with no permit but, in any town like mine, be in Federal violation just walking or driving down 90% of the streets. In my case I'm in violation just stepping off my property.

But the Feds seldom do traffic stops and if you live in anything resembling a self-respecting state or town the staties and locals aren't likely to be too het up about turning voters into felons on behalf of the Feds for a mere violation like speeding. Especially under a law that's already failed one challenge and hasn't seriously been challenged since.

Of the various carry-related problems that might arise as an otherwise law-abiding (no drugs, warrants, etc) carrier the GFSZA is barely on the radar. On your route it's the laws of the anti-gun states and DC I'd worry about, not the Feds.

I second the "get a room in Virginia and lock the guns there" idea for visiting DC.

 

[NavyLCDR]

You need to keep the gun (unloaded) and ammo in 2 different places. Under lock and key. Like a locked trunk and locked glove box.

According to what?!? What you suggest is a VIOLATION of FOPA standards and causes the protections of FOPA to become null and void!

The unloaded gun and the ammo may be stored together, in the same locked container, but both the gun and the ammo must be separated from the occupants of the vehicle, and the glovebox/center console are specifically prohibited from use for such purpose.

18 USC 926A:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_sec_18_00000926---A000-.html

Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver’s compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.

 

[NavyLCDR]

DO NOT take your gun into Washington D.C.! Stay somewhere like Crystal City, Virginia and take the Metro to/in D.C.

 

[Deleted member 66305]

I like the suggestion of getting a hotel room in VA and keeping the gun locked in a safe in my room -- that gives me a possible alternative to just leaving it in GA at my parents', while I travel north.

Even so, I'm still thinking the greatest threat is the legal liability for possessing the weapon in states where I'm less familiar with the laws.

 

[carebear]

On a side note:

You might consider a locking gun case that can be secured to the in-room safe mount or other fixed object as opposed to in the safe itself.

Those aren't really "secure" as there a lot of employees who can get/provide access while you're out.