Trolls! another rant about this community by Zundy

[default]

I don't know...imagine how some of these types of threads would be responded to at GT or Arfcom. On the whole, the THR community has bent over backwards to try to give civil, face-value answers to questions that in retrospect are obviously trollbait. The cut-and-paste rehash nature of some of the first posts by certain new member thread starters is one clue, the belligerent and sarcastic tone is another, and their failure to return and engage in conversation/debate is the most telling.

A few polite and straightforward responses, no matter how grotesque the trollery is, in the hopes of starting a discussion, is good "High Road" behavior. After that, just stop responding. Who needs repetitive two-and-three-page threads about the fundamental flaws of anti-RKBA thinking where all of the thread contributors except for the single post by the thread starter (who almost invariably is never heard from again) are in absolute agreement? I mean, we could be arguing about the relative merits of 9mm and .45acp. I don't think that has been addressed here...

 

[Zen21Tao]

I agree that we should take the moral high ground when confronting trolls to demonstrate to others that may be "on the fence" and lurking to develop their opinion of guns and gun owners. I have no problems politely arguing antis or even those just trying to troll up controversies. The important thing is that we demonstrate to others that we are capable of standing on the strength and logic of our arguments not the appeals to emotion, insults, deceptions and fallacies often used by the antis.

In addition to the trolls are the spammers (like Aussieseek) that like to come here to try to direct traffic back to their websites without participating in any other threads on THR. I don't see why these types should be tolerated. They offer absolutely nothing to THR.

 

[Maser]

I think it all depends on the type of troll we are dealing with. Some trolls are good and bring lots of humor to sites like this. Those types of trolls are the types that can be worked with and made to be a respected member of the community. Now, if we are dealing with a troll who is here to strictly cause trouble and be hostile towards other members then I say we make their limited time here at this site miserable either until they leave or the admins hit the IP ban.

There are times where I seem to come off as a troll and sometimes I think i'm a troll in real life. Goats don't like me and try to ram me.

 

[real_name]

I say we make their limited time here at this site miserable either until they leave...

I can't disagree more, that is not how it is here.
You joined tonight so I will give you the benefit of the doubt, but be aware that flaming and baiting isn't encouraged or tolerated here.
There are many forums out there for mindless arguing, this is one for discussing.

 

[Baba Louie]

I do like to think of this place as really being a place where members take the high road in all things, at least while they're on line here. The name does say it all. Right now (Thu May 25 at 7:07 am PST) there are 222 members & 558 guests on board. A whole lot of lurking going on here, kids.
People who are either not sure, just curious, or are not joiners are reading the e-drivel we spawn. They can and do receive quite an education on the merits of firearms and the mindset that "law-abiding" citizens have in regard this single issue... well, also with it's related side issues i.e. law, politics, etc.

Some will join to post the pro side, others the con. Treat them like you just met them in Oleg & Derek's living room and were having a good conversation. Sometimes heated, sometimes joking, sometimes serious or light, but always with the amount of respect you have for your hosts, if not their guests.

Learn from them as well.

What was it Sun Tzu wrote about "knowing your enemy as well as you know yourself"? (for those of you who don't know, look it up )

How one deals with trolls is sorta like dealing with other things in life. Some things we tend to ignore. Some we gently laugh at. Others still get the treatment.

 

[sturmruger]

Zund I couldn't agree with you more.

I think people don't qualify as a troll unless they post something and don't participate in the active discussion. When they post something and then never reply to any of the comments that is when I get really pissed off.

 

[pax]

Zundy ~

hso is right. Never was an anti, or even a fence sittter. I joined TFL a couple of months before I purchased my first handgun, but politically I've always been pro freedom.

Everyone else ~

No one is demanding you spend your time tilting at windmills. Whether you choose to post extensively on a thread or move along after reading or never open the thread in the first place, your time is your own.

Just refrain from outright rudeness to other posters. That especially includes the ones you don't agree with.

pax

If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all. -- mom

 

[qajaq59]

Years ago I figured out that trying to change the mind of a zealot was like trying to talk a tree into walking. Now I just ignore the whole group and back the politicians that think as I do. There is nothing worse then to be a zealot when absolutely no one paying any attention to you.

 

[Zundfolge]

Zundy ~

hso is right. Never was an anti, or even a fence sittter. I joined TFL a couple of months before I purchased my first handgun, but politically I've always been pro freedom.

Ah, well I stand corrected ... however I'm positive there is some "ranking member" of this forum that is both a woman and a former anti who came here asking questions ... wish I could remember who it was.

 

[poppy]

I am relatively new to this whole internet forum business. I was around when the fax machine was quite new and VCR's cost $1000.

I went to college with what we would call a troll today. He knew everything about anything and don't try to confuse him with the facts. Trolls in the forum world have taken on a whole new set of characteristics. With the anonymous nature of the internet, one can project whatever they want to.

The fact that I am a white 60 year old grandfather with a college degree is not apparent when I post about the merits of a Ruger pistol.

I could just as easily be a snot-nosed teenager with an ability to read and type.

What bugs me is that even experienced forum members with large post counts and intelligent posts seem to be able to make a snap judgment on the background of a poster with almost no real information about them.

You will sometimes see me ask a poster some questions before I respond to their original post. How many times have we seen the question, "which handgun should I get" and are not told what the gun will be used for, or what they can spend, etc., yet many will respond after making a number of assumptions.

I certainly can't always identify a troll. Sometimes a new member will ask a question, and we later find out that they are a student who has been given a lame assignment by a liberal teacher. If the neighbor kid knocks on my door and asks the same question, I already have some important information about that person; not so on the internet.

I was brought up to always give the other person the benefit of doubt and hear them out. Judge not... as we Christians proclaim.

 

[hso]

I say we make their limited time here at this site miserable either until they leave or the admins hit the IP ban.

As 'fun' as it might seem it's not what we consider 'professional' behavior here. Think of it this way, it makes no more sense to make a dog miserable when it doesn't come than it does to torment a some guy we think is a troll. If we want to have any chance at all to train the thing we do it best by not beating the critter. At least the other critters won't be driven off by the noise.

 

[hillbilly]

Popppy wrote:

"What bugs me is that even experienced forum members with large post counts and intelligent posts seem to be able to make a snap judgment on the background of a poster with almost no real information about them."


Poppy, there is nothing "snap" about the judgment.

There is real information at hand.

Merely go to the "Adanced Search" function and do a search for "all posts" by a person you suspect as a troll.

Here are some dead troll give aways.

1) A "new member" who joined 24 to 48 hours ago, who's already racked up 20 or so posts. That's a sure troll sign.

2) A "new member" who has posted several incendiary, insulting, or otherwise extraordinarily controversial posts, especially in an astoundingly short time.

3) A "new member" who argues a point in one category, but argues the exact opposite side of the very same point in another post in a different category.

4) A "new member" who posts really controversial stuff in a thread, but who never ever responds to anything in that thread ever again. Easy to see with the "Advanced Search" functions.

5) A yahoo.com or google search that reveals the very same material has been posted on many, many, many different bulletin boards and web sites.

Poppy, go to your favorite web search engine and type in the words "Insight of a Bull's-Eye" and see what you get.

Or, better yet, go this thread, and look for my post in it. The post you need to see is #113, to be specific

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=150546

Again, there are very, very, very easy ways to check if somebody is a troll or not.

The easiest is to just use the "Advanced Search" tools available to everyone here on THR, and just do about 60 seconds worth of looking.

That's why I get so dad-gummed frustrated by so many of these situations.

There are very easy ways to see if somebody is a troll or not.

But I think so many folks are so eager to look like they are on "The High Road" that they prefer to just take posters at their word, and either don't know how to use, or just refuse to use the very powerful search tools literally at their fingertips on this very bulletin board.

The information is right here, and very easy to access.

hillbilly

 

[Quo Vadis]

question on the motion

You will sometimes see me ask a poster some questions before I respond to their original post.

So here is the question - Designation of caliber -
One sees .45 caliber -
45 caliber
45-75
30-06
and so forth
My understanding is that say 45 is 45th of an inch - 50 would be one half inch.
If .45 - .50 is correct, why both 45 caliber and .45 caliber?

Think I made a ass of my self in an e-mail to MidWeek about an article they ran of a .45 mm Glock. I was thinking at the time that .45 mm would be smaller that a penciled lead. Just right to shoot trolls and cockroaches.

Thanks--

 

[Quo Vadis]

know it - say it

If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all. -- mom

Dad said that if you can not do it right the first time, don't do it at all.

Did your mom know dad?


By the By: pax - nice web page that
http://corneredcat.com/

 

[joneb]

You can lead a horse to water but you you can't make it drink. Or you can beat the horse, which won't make it drink, and won't make the horse like you either

 

[poppy]

Hillbilly, Thanks for the info on advanced search. I admit that I have not tried it, so I stand corrected.

I come here to get entertained as well as educated, so don't really worry too much about trolls.

 

[Big Gay Al]

If anyone doesn't want to "waste their time" by engaging in friendly, thoughtful debate with the gun grabbers, then DON'T REPLY TO THEM. Leave them to those of us who have the time to "waste."

By the way, I wasted so much of my time with some gun grabbers one day (not here, in another place) that I managed to convince them to go shooting with me. Out of 4 of them, 3 bought guns that day.

And yes, before that, they were pretty rabidly anti-gun too.

 

[Oleg Volk]

1. If you write something on THR, do it as if your god/gods/best friend are watching. Anything you write will be archived pretty much forever.
2. Upon encountering trolls, do not try to engage with small arms. Identify, fall back and radio for artillery/air strikes/moderators.

 

[hillbilly]

Oleg has it.

First, identify the troll.

See my post above for some quick, easy ways to do that.

Then, call in the air strike. Send the information you collect on the troll to the moderators.

That is what I said in my very first post to this thread, albeit in a much less elegant, effecient, manner.

If the poster is serious and really wants debate or info, then go for it.

But if the poster is just trolling (see how to ID a troll above) call in the airstrike, and let the mods strike down upon him with furious anger.

hillbilly

 

[Ezekiel]

"Flip side, if troll-ness unconfirmed."

But if the poster is just trolling (see how to ID a troll above) call in the airstrike, and let the mods strike down upon him with furious anger.

'The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides with the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who in the name of charity and good will shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon those with great vengeance and with furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know that my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee.'

Interestingly enough, in the flick, "not a direct King James quote!" (I'm trolling!)

Flip side of the "debate?" If you cannot confirm "troll-ness", let the poster get his point out, even if unpopular. (I have been known to carry unpopular or devisive opinions, for example.)

Folks have been good about letting me do so, here.

 

[akodo]

It seems to me the proper response is to take the original question and respond to it. Now, if after the original question is answered, and the poster ignores said answer, then yea, the term troll fits, and the thread can be locked. If nothing else, ignoring the original question, even by the person who posted it, makes the thread off topic.

 

[sterling180]

Personally,if anti-gun trolls show up on this forum,then it is a shooters responsibility to have a well-balanced debate with them-regarding what the legal-status should be on firearms-and to round-off the argument,in a professional and curtious mannor.

If they get abusive and violent with a poster on this forum-because they are not winning the argument-then they should be reminded that this is a shooting forum and that they are guests on this forum,sometimes courtesy of one of moderators,or devolopers of THR.

The good thing about this forum is that no one here is afraid to challenge stupid or bigoted persons,in terms of questioning their beliefs and making them look like total buffoons, in front of other THR posters.Such examples were and are seen on the Australian threads,involving Australian shooters and the Antis from Aussieseek.

I even suggested to Keith from Aussieseek that he should try shooting,so that he would have a valid opinion on guns-and not end up talking like a John Howard or Rebecca Peters clone.I bet that must of shut other others at Aussieseek or even himself up temperarily.I even insulted some of them, at Aussieseek quite harshly,because of their verbal abuse and death threats-towards all shooters-as well as telling Aussieseek "To put his house in order".

 

[Carl N. Brown]

like trying to talk a tree into walking
Like the Ents in Lord of the Rings?

While we may not be able to affect trolls, we may
be able to affect fence-sitters who are lurking about.

But the subject is good for an excuse to post
"clever" `artwork'

 

[PinnedAndRecessed]

we should act like the name of this forum means something

That means we can't sock'em in the gut?

 

[NineseveN]

That means we can't sock'em in the gut?

Nope, have to hit them a little higher, like in the mouth.