Trouble at S&W and lead in bullets.
- Thread starter Old Fuff
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Smith & Wesson, as well as most other gun companies, do send representatives around to various major matches, and of course they talk to a lot of "ordinary folks" at the SHOT Show and NRA Convention each year. They also get feedback from they're distributors. On the other hand they have made some major (and minor) marketing decisions that they probably wouldn't have if they were closer to what they're customers are really interested in.
When the deal to buy Thompson Center went down they had no way of knowing that $4.00+ gasoline and some investment bankers with questionable ethics were going to tank the economy, and fortunately they did spot the trend toward tactical firearms and got going before the president-elect was known to anyone outside of Chicago.
And there is no way that they can build revolvers like they did during the 1950’s and 60’s and sell them for a price most buyers would be willing to pay. The only way you are going to ever get such a gun is on the used market, and the longer you wait the more it’s going to cost you.
While there is apparently a large number of members on this forum (and including me) that detest their internal lock, the fact is that an overwhelming number of buyers don’t care, and it’s unlikely that they’ll change to satisfy a small minority other then to make special (and expensive) short runs of various models without the lock. You may not like it, I don’t particularly like it, but that’s the way it’s going to be. Those who feel otherwise can go to www.gunbroker.com or the auctions at www.armsbid.com and get exactly what they want – but it won’t necessarily be cheap.
For the record, Smith & Wesson wasn’t the only one that has been caught off guard by the shift away from traditional firearms to tactical ones. Those companies that make only traditional hunting and target arms are for the most part having serious hurts, and their future at this point doesn’t look too good. This is in no way good news for us, because if the long (and maybe short) run when the industry is in trouble it will affect users sooner or later.
Last but not least I will again point out that a free subscription to The Shooting Wire (see opening post) will go a long way toward keeping everyone who is interested informed and up-to-date on what is happening.
When the deal to buy Thompson Center went down they had no way of knowing that $4.00+ gasoline and some investment bankers with questionable ethics were going to tank the economy, and fortunately they did spot the trend toward tactical firearms and got going before the president-elect was known to anyone outside of Chicago.
And there is no way that they can build revolvers like they did during the 1950’s and 60’s and sell them for a price most buyers would be willing to pay. The only way you are going to ever get such a gun is on the used market, and the longer you wait the more it’s going to cost you.
While there is apparently a large number of members on this forum (and including me) that detest their internal lock, the fact is that an overwhelming number of buyers don’t care, and it’s unlikely that they’ll change to satisfy a small minority other then to make special (and expensive) short runs of various models without the lock. You may not like it, I don’t particularly like it, but that’s the way it’s going to be. Those who feel otherwise can go to www.gunbroker.com or the auctions at www.armsbid.com and get exactly what they want – but it won’t necessarily be cheap.
For the record, Smith & Wesson wasn’t the only one that has been caught off guard by the shift away from traditional firearms to tactical ones. Those companies that make only traditional hunting and target arms are for the most part having serious hurts, and their future at this point doesn’t look too good. This is in no way good news for us, because if the long (and maybe short) run when the industry is in trouble it will affect users sooner or later.
Last but not least I will again point out that a free subscription to The Shooting Wire (see opening post) will go a long way toward keeping everyone who is interested informed and up-to-date on what is happening.
mainmech48
Member
Coronach is right-on. Seems as if some folks who should know better can't seem to recognize the irony in demanding and expecting to be paid top dollar for their skills and services and being outraged when other folks believe it's fair to ask that they get paid the same for theirs.
*Heavy sigh*
And then they wonder where all the jobs went and why everything is marked "Made in China" now.
You want to pay Third World wages to the people who produce the things you buy? Then don't expect to have better living standards yourself for very long.
*Heavy sigh*
And then they wonder where all the jobs went and why everything is marked "Made in China" now.
You want to pay Third World wages to the people who produce the things you buy? Then don't expect to have better living standards yourself for very long.
Pulse
Member
lead free ammo is possible, but expensiv.. very expensiv.
there are however ways make ammo emit less lead once fired.
the standart swiss rifle ammo, the "Gw Pat 90", is made that way.
by adding 2% of Antimony to the lead core, you can bind it, wich greatly reduces the amount of lead that can break free after it was fired.
finishes up with a tombac/steel jacket and a leadfree primer you can get very "clean" amoo that does not cost mutch more, if anything at all, then regular ammo.
there are however ways make ammo emit less lead once fired.
the standart swiss rifle ammo, the "Gw Pat 90", is made that way.
by adding 2% of Antimony to the lead core, you can bind it, wich greatly reduces the amount of lead that can break free after it was fired.
finishes up with a tombac/steel jacket and a leadfree primer you can get very "clean" amoo that does not cost mutch more, if anything at all, then regular ammo.
jjohnson
Member
I'm going to start casting.
Oh, man......
I guess eventually we're going to get the lead out of bullets....
I had hoped that it wouldn't happen while I'm still alive... but.... with the way things are going... maybe.
Every time I see stuff like this I'm tempted to get into casting my own. I don't have time to do it - but if the situation changes with our change in government, maybe I'll get around to casting after all.
Oh, man......
I guess eventually we're going to get the lead out of bullets....
I had hoped that it wouldn't happen while I'm still alive... but.... with the way things are going... maybe.
Every time I see stuff like this I'm tempted to get into casting my own. I don't have time to do it - but if the situation changes with our change in government, maybe I'll get around to casting after all.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Jacketed bullets with lead cores have had 2% antimony for about 50-60 years now. Even lead bullets for such ammo as the old, anemic .38 Special 158 RN and .44 Special 146grain RN bullet had about 1% antimony. .38 +P 58 LSWCHP runs at about 2% as well...or a little more.
Personally, I love mining jacketed bullets for the antimonial lead cores. Mixed with a 16:1 Lead/Tin alloy, it makes for a near perfect cast bullet for .44 Special and .45 Colt with 245-260 grain bullets...respectively...at the top velocities within the standard pressure ranges. (875-975 fps)
Just hard enough to get a good purchase on the rifling and soft enough to obturate and seal the bore. No leading, and ample thump to satisfy all but the most serious recoil junkie, with soft material penetration that's almost shocking.
Moving up to lead cored bullets that are factory loaded in magnum revolver ammo, and the antimony content can run as hight as 3.5-4%.
Pulse
Member
one can learn something every day.
they allways told us in the army that that round is so special.. an other myth apperently.
thats the round i am talking about btw: http://www.ruag.com/ruag/binary?media=152017&open=true
Baba Louie
Member
- Joined
- Dec 26, 2002
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From the NSSF Bullet Points 12-22-08
No mention yet of 3Q or 4Q yet... but 308% for their 15 series? Must have been real slow sales in spring of 07.
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