Trouble reloading .380 Auto

[ak_glen]

Hi,

I currently reload for a number of rifles and pistols. I bought the wife one of those little ruger .380s but she didn’t really like it so picked up a Walthers pk380. Then I picked up a set of Lee dies along with the FCD. Also bought up some Hornady .355” 90 gr XTP.

Set up the dies using the seating die to only seat the bullet as I use the FDC to crimp. Right now I’m not using primers nor powder as I’m only trying to set the dies up.

My problem is that after running the shell and bullet through the FDC I can push the bullet further into the case. I have adjusted the FDC out and in numerous times and once thought I had it but on the very next shell, I was able to push the bullet in.

I am getting frustrated so decided to stop and grab a beer and ask the pro’s here for some suggestions and advice.

Thanks in advance!

 

[jcwit]

Forget the FCD and use the seating die, just a slight crimp. Check this forum about the uselessness of the FCD. This is of course MHO.

Tried the FCD a couple of years ago, and finally got it thru my head it was an item looking for a problem that doesn't exist. Millions of rounds have been reloaded prier to its invention.

 

[wingman]

I load 380 using the FCD, I like to seat and crimp in separate operations especially with a small cartridge like the 380. Go back reread the instruction you set up the dies wrong. Don't expand the brass much just enough for the bullet to set on it.

 

[jcwit]

As I stated in my post. Isn't it odd that all the millions of rounds were reloaded with no problems before the invention of the FCD. Amazingly I was able to reload from the 60's till a few years ago with no problem till I tried the FCD. Struggle with it if you wish.

BTW generally I like Lee, even their scale is accurate.

 

[leadchucker]

I just went through the same ordeal. :banghead: Are you feeling any increased resistance as the ram reaches the top of the stroke on the FCD? You won't feel much, just a little, maybe the last couple of inches of the lever movement. If you aren't feeling any resistance, the FCD is not crimping.

There is a video on Youtube, here, evidently the official instructional video from Lee, that explains how to set the die.

The FCD makes life easy for us noobs.

 

[RidgwayCO]

If I may ask, what brand of brass are you using? And (if using mixed headstamp brass) does this happen with all of them?

 

[kingmt]

As I stated in my post. Isn't it odd that all the millions of rounds were reloaded with no problems before the invention of the FCD. Amazingly I was able to reload from the 60's till a few years ago with no problem till I tried the FCD. Struggle with it if you wish.

BTW generally I like Lee, even their scale is accurate.

jcwit

I'm normally on the same side as you on your post but on this one your argument would be the same as using smokeless vs black powder or lead vs jacketed. Millions of men & animals have been put down with lead projected by BP so why is there need for anything else. Truth is there isn't a need but it is still nice. I can't speak for the FCD because I have never even seen one.

 

[ak_glen]

I reload my own ammo, never buy unless its .22 rimfire.
I had no intention of stirring the pot on any ongoing discussion on using the FDC either. I do use the FDC on a number of other cartridges and do believe I see an improvement. I also agree that people reloaded ammo for years without them.
Thanks for the link to utube; that does show the way I set this die up. The only way to get the bullet to hold and resist the force of pushing the bullet against the work bench is by turning the adjustment screw 1 and a quarter turns. This is much more then I am used to.
I am grabbing brass from a bucket of mixed head stamps and it happens with them all.

 

[cfullgraf]

My problem is that after running the shell and bullet through the FDC I can push the bullet further into the case. I have adjusted the FDC out and in numerous times and once thought I had it but on the very next shell, I was able to push the bullet in.

Maybe your expander ball is too large or your sizer die does not resize the case enough. Crimps don't really hold the bullet, neck tension does. A crimp won't make up for poor neck tension.

I cannot comment on the value of the Lee FCD but I have been reloading 380 ACP since 1980 without one. I taper crimp in a separate operation from bullet seating. The taper crimp is primarily to remove the mouth belling.

 

[jcwit]

jcwit

I'm normally on the same side as you on your post but on this one your argument would be the same as using smokeless vs black powder or lead vs jacketed. Millions of men & animals have been put down with lead projected by BP so why is there need for anything else. Truth is there isn't a need but it is still nice. I can't speak for the FCD because I have never even seen one.

Say there kingmt, sure should have looked at it that way I guess. I do know that the FCD really gave me fits a couple of yrs ago till I discounted its use. Since then I've had no use for them, now we are talking handgun ammo here, bottlenecked is a whole different story.

Best!

 

[Marlin 45 carbine]

the .380acp actually is a .356" dia slug. the ones you have are for the 9 mm Para (.355) try some .356 dia. Rem's 88 gr jhpbevel base is as good as it gets in my BDA .380acp. so is Magnus but Rem is a bit tighter (and more $) groups.
I use the FCD for my 'premium' loads for me and a nephew's wife. every now and again will straigthen one out a bit. this is after std crimp. just cheap insurance AFAIC

 

[joneb]

I have loaded many pistol and revolver cartridges without a post sizing die and never had a problem as long as my dies a adjusted correctly, and my cases and bullets are within spec.
So for me a FCD is not on my get list.

 

[ak_glen]

Marlin 45 carbine, yep, even says 9mm .355” on the box; Hornady #35500. Thing is I have Hornady’s 7th edition and it shows 35500 used for both the .380 and the 9mm. And their book shows both using .355” bullets.
When I first started having problem…from the start of this process, I thought it was the bullets themselves. But since their book shows this number for the .380 I figured it was something I was doing.
I loaded up a couple mags worth. I still don’t like the amount of tension or lack thereof but I will measure all the bullets after each shot to see if any setback is occurring.
Just thought of this…I bought a couple boxes; maybe I need to check out some from the other boxes.

 

[zxcvbob]

How is the bullet tension *before* you use the FC die? If it's loose, your expander die is set too far down. If it's tight, the problem is the crimp die and you need to learn how to crimp with the seating die. (you can do that in a separate step if you want to, but you'd have to readjust the die.) I seat and crimp at the same time without any problems, even when I use a progressive press.

I think you just don't have the dies setup right yet.

 

[leadchucker]

Get your caliper and a manual with the drawings of the 380 round. Confirm correct diameter and length of your bullets. Check your seating depth. Check the diameter of one of your completed loads right at the mouth of the round after crimping.

 

[griff383]

I had the same problem with the same dies and bullets. Im thinking that the LEE dies may size the case just a bit bigger, enough to offer little to no neck tension on those particular bullets. I just figured it was one of those combinations that were few and far between and just didnt work, it happens from time to time.

I found some Remington 102gr (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=1601394861) that I really like for SD, if you search this bullet you will get a ton of results and reports.

 

[RidgwayCO]

I am grabbing brass from a bucket of mixed head stamps and it happens with them all.

OK, that's good to know.

Another dumb question. Are you sure your sizing die is for .380 Auto and not 9mm Luger? Mixups at the factory have occurred before...

If your sizing die is in fact for .380 Auto and is set correctly, then I'm afraid the only answer is your sizing die is not sizing your cases enough. Contact Lee to have it replaced, or get a different one (my RCBS dies have always worked well for me). Sufficient case neck tension holds the bullet in place, and a crimp can't fix it. I use an RCBS seater die (in a separate operation from bullet seating) to apply just enough taper crimp to remove the belling of the case mouth.

As far as the Lee FCD... I use them for rifle rounds, but not any longer for handgun rounds. I found better accuracy with my handgun loads without the post-sizing. YMMV.

Oh, and .355" jacketed bullets (.356" lead) are correct for the .380 Auto...

 

[wingman]

As I previously posted I prefer to seat and crimp in different operations as it appears to provide a better product with more consistent OAL and crimp, most problems I've seen with the Lee FCD is not being set correctly.

I load 45acp,40S&W, 9MM, 380 and 38sp all using a lee FCD and never seen a decline in accuracy and never had a failure to feed with any of my reloads except with a 45acp and that was a gun problem.

 

[MickKennedy29]

When I hear the argument that you shouldn't NEED the FCD, and that people loaded safe and accurate ammo for years before, I always think about the Hornady Powder Cop and RCBS lock-out dies and the powder/primer alarms of Dillon. Sure people loaded good ammo without those safety precautions, but how many people that espouse the argument against the FCD also argue against those other safety measures. I have found that while my dies are set up correctly and I don't NEED the FCD, it is nice to have the extra assurance that the ammo will chamber correctly.

I guess I just don't understand arguing against it. Now show me how it actually HURTS my ammo's safety or accuracy and I might change my tune.

To the OP's question, I think that measuring the dimensions of your cases during the loading process and cross-checking those measurements against the load book's chart is probably the best advice for pinpointing where your problem is coming from. Without seeing how things are set up, I lean more toward improper die set-up or a defective die.

 

[BADUNAME37]

I say "triple-check" all of your dimensions, of EVERYTHING, including the bullets (pill) that you are using! It may be that something is just off literally a fraction of an inch which would cause the problems you are stating!

I couldn't tell you over almost 30 years of reloading how many times the light bulb in my brain went on and I quickly ran to the basement to figure out a problem only to find either something was improperly marked and/or I was "mis-using" something!

Hey, I'm not perfect and I am the first to admit that I'm not (my wife might agree, but that doesn't count Here)!

 

[forgetitohio]

That's the round I use Hornady .355” 90 gr XTP for .380.
But if you get down to it a .380 bullet according to "nominal bullet dia." by Winchester reloaders manual is .356.
I have RNJ in .380 and they are .356.
Still hate loading the little buggers.

The central problem of our age is how to act decisively in the absence of certainty. - Bertrand Russell

 

[BADUNAME37]

I also load Hornady #35500 (90g HP Jacketed) bullets (pill) for my .380 Auto.

I just mic'd one and it mic's at exactly .355"

I have had no problems with these at all, loading them with RCBS dies and a Lee FCD as a separate operation after seating the lot of bullets. Never are the bullets loose enough in the case neck to enable me to push it in without the use of the press.

Could it be you are using the expander too deeply?
The expander die only needs to expand the case mouth sufficiently so as to prevent shearing of copper from the jacket which would happen without the expander. So, the amount of expansion from the expander die should be barely even visible to the naked eye for these bullet/load combinations!

 

[jcwit]

I guess I just don't understand arguing against it. Now show me how it actually HURTS my ammo's safety or accuracy and I might change my tune.

My quote

Tried the FCD a couple of years ago, and finally got it thru my head it was an item looking for a problem that doesn't exist.

Anothe of my quotes

I do know that the FCD really gave me fits a couple of yrs ago till I discounted its use. Since then I've had no use for them, now we are talking handgun ammo here, bottlenecked is a whole different story.

Now try this, also my quote

Check this forum about the uselessness of the FCD.

Can only say it sure didn't help my accuracy, in fact it made it worse, course I have no idea what others here call accurate.

I'm not able to do it but I've watched it done, put all 5 rounds into the x ring of a bullseye match target at 50 yds ofhand with a 1911 auto. Thats one handed of course.

 

[forgetitohio]

Doesn't anybody ream out their cases?? Just enough trimming of case neck so a bullet will start easier especially with new brass.

When I buy new.45 cases I ream them all ONCE. If you go too crazy the case will split after a few reloads. You're not trying to make the case shorter just alittle bevel on the inside.

I have a .45 reamer (it looks like a cone) with a dowel rod in it and use my cordless drill. It's tapered enough to use in .380

Here's a link for a hand reamer.... http://www.opticsplanet.net/lyman-vld-very-low-drag-chamfer-reamer-7777789.html

A state is a perfect body of free men, united together to enjoy common rights and advantages. - Hugo Grotius

 

[RidgwayCO]

Doesn't anybody ream out their cases?? Just enough trimming of case neck so a bullet will start easier especially with new brass.

Umm... no. That Lyman tool is designed to lightly chamfer the inside neck of rifle brass, after it's been trimmed, to use with very low drag (VLD) bullets. I've never seen the need to trim most of my handgun brass, and if I did, I would just use a regular deburring tool. The case mouth flaring for handgun brass is usually enough to help seat a bullet. Conversely rifle brass is not usually flared, and needs the inside chamfer to help get the bullet seated without screwing up the brass. Also, I've read that excessive chamfering of revolver brass can mess up a good roll crimp, but I'm not sure if that's true or not.