Trouble resizing 460 brass

[tikit2ryde]

I made the mistake of spending the money on Redding dies for my S&W 460.

When I started using them the brass buckled,by the way they are carbide die so no lube should be needed.
I then went to spraying the brass with Dillions case lube and the cases still buckled.
I then went to Imperial resizing wax with the same result.
I removed the resizing die and measured the opening and it is .467 same as my 45 LC die and they are Dillion.
Only difference I can measure is that the Dillion die has a lead in from .476 down to .467 but the Redding does not .467 straight though.
I will take some photos later today and post them but the buckle is at the bottom and even if I try to resize a little at a time when I get to the bottom it will buckle.
The Redding die resizes down to .466 and some even smaller.
I am going to send the dies back to Redding with the buckled cases and some fired case, they told me the die could be assembled wrong?
I wonder if the resizing ring is in backwards.
Has anyone else run into this problem with Redding or anyother dies.

Thanks in advance.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

Try chamfering the outside of the mouth before you resize. Other than that I don't know what to say. Redding has always be premier dies, I have 3 or 4 sets of them.
I recently bought some Starline 41 magnum brass and the case walls are so thick that they are really hard to work with also. I haven't buckled any yet but I thought the same about the Hornady dies I'm using. I had to chamfer the outside of them also to get them to resize.

Wait until you try to seat bullets in them.

Most of my brass is around .010-011" thickness on the sidewalls, Win, Fed, Rem, my Starline is .013"-014". They are stout. I did load them but I fought them the whole way. I haven't shot them yet, that on today agenda.

Maybe the same problem you have.

 

[Grumulkin]

You shouldn't have to lube 460 S&W cases for sizing and the cases shouldn't buckle. My bet is you actually have a 45 Colt/454 Casull die that was mistakenly labeled as a 460 S&W die.

By the way, did you look at the markings on the top of the die to see if it actually says 460 S&W?

I have, by the way, had 2 or 3 Redding items with quality control issues. A different company took 3 tries to get a 357 Herrett trim die right. The point is they do screw up on occasion. I can't remember ever having had a blatant mistake on RCBS or Lee products though.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

I can't remember ever having had a blatant mistake on RCBS or Lee products though.

I really can't either. It could be your resizing die is the wrong die like said above or has the wrong insert in it. It wouldn't be the first time.

Did you mic the inside of the die to see how far undersized it is?

 

[tikit2ryde]

When I got the dies the only one mark for the 460 was the crimp die and it is a taper and crimp in one.
Redding told me that they use the 454/45LC resizing and seating die for the 460?
The sizing ring is .467 all the way thru that is using a veiner I have to see if I have a snap gauge small enough to fit in the die, but right at the mouth of the die it is deffinetly .467.
My Dilloin 45 LC has a taper starting at .476 down to 4.67.

 

[243winxb]

The dillon die would be more open (bevel) for use in a progressive press. Some other brands do this also, but maybe not all calibers? Try a lube that is not wax. Like RCBS lube. The 460 is sized down about .004" under bullet diameter. Lots of neck tension is needed to keep bullet* from moving under recoil.

 

[buck460XVR]

I will take some photos later today and post them but the buckle is at the bottom and even if I try to resize a little at a time when I get to the bottom it will buckle.

Sounds like it just might be the die adjustment. If it is indeed a .45Colt die, it may be too short to adjust the die to the shell holder and the case is bottoming out. Have you tried to adjust the die up higher? If I get a case that buckles when reloading .460, it is generally when crimping because a lot of force is put on the top of the case when the length is basically unsupported.

 

[tikit2ryde]

Right now I am using my Dillon 45LC die to resize and it maks all thr way to the foot of the case,.
I tryed Dillion spray liquid lub first with no luck.
The manual says that the OD of the case should be .478 at the top and bottom.
None of the dies I have will do this and an unfired round is only.4755 that is .011 difference.
I need to get batteries so I can post some photos of this problem.
I have only resized 20 cases and loaded none till I figure out with your help what is wrong this round is far to potent to be wrong.

 

[243winxb]

The SAAMI drawing for the 460 shows a maximum loaded round diameter of .478" -.006" or a minimum of .472" Reddings website said there should be a bevel on the mouth of there 460 Titanium carbide sizing die. The 45 Colt die may work fine, the SAAMI drawing is only + .002" difference. http://www.saami.org/PubResources/CC_Drawings/Pistol/460%20SandW%20Magnum.pdf I am guessing you already know this >

, firearms that fire .460 S&W are usually capable of firing the less powerful .454 Casull, .45 Colt and .45 Schofield rounds, but this must be verified with each firearm's manufacturer.

 

[buck460XVR]

.
Redding told me that they use the 454/45LC resizing and seating die for the 460?

Right now I am using my Dillon 45LC die to resize and it maks all thr way to the foot of the case,.

Then there must be a difference between the dies. Again, it seems that the case is bottoming out before it is full length resized, thus the buckling at the last portion of the press stroke. This difference may be a difference in design or a flaw in the die itself. Redding should be able to tell you. If the Redding die is actually a .45 Colt/.454 die, than it would have no advantage over your Dillon .45 Colt die, and if the Dillon die works, then there's no reason to fix it. Starline actually claims that .45 Colt/.454 dies work best for resizing their .460 brass.


Your concerns for being careful with the .460 are correct. It doesn't take much to make a big difference with this round. One thing I always caution new .460 reloaders to, is the use of once fired Hornady brass. Some of it has been shortened in order to load with their FTX bullet. These cases can be significantly shorter than SAAMI specs. Thus reloading them with the same recipes as SAAMI speced cases, can lead to substantial increases in pressure. Another thing I suggest is to seat and crimp in two steps. The heavy crimp required to prevent bullet jump in high recoiling loads can buckle the long, unsupported cases when trying to seat at the same time. It also pays to trim .460 cases or sort them to all the same length to make sure this heavy crimp is consistent.

 

[Steven57]

Wish I could be of help, but sounds like a maladjustment. I use all Lee products and my .460 dies work just fine as do all the other dies/sizes.

 

[tikit2ryde]

Here are two photos of the problem.

Before I changed to my Dillion dies I made sure I was not bottoming out the die on the brass.
I have some Hornaday once fired brass that was loaded with FTX bullets.
These are the cases I am working with now.
My plan was to reload them with FTX bullets again.
My thought is that the Redding Dies are defective, I will be sending them back with some once fired brass.
The sizing ring in the die is also to small and has no lead in or it is put in backwards.
I thank you all for your help please keep the information comming.
I have been loading 44 magnum, 45 LC ,45 ACP ,357/38 for years, this is the first time I have come across this problem.
Thanks Again for all the help and information,

Allen Rubenacker

 

[Walkalong]

Assuming everything is lined up OK, the die is bad. That isn't the first sizer I have seen do that. It's the worst, but not the first.

 

[Grumulkin]

1. You should be able to have the shell holder abut the die without collapseing cases and, in fact, for 460 S&W Magnum cartridges to be shot in a revolver, you need to do that or you may have bullets moving under recoil. The only new brass I resize prior to reloading is 460 S&W Magnum brass as bullets won't stay put under recoil unless I do.

2. I was never able to get a strong enough crimp to hold bullets using a roll crimp without collapseing 460 brass. The problem was solved with a Lee Factory Crimp die.

 

[243winxb]

Assuming everything is lined up OK,

If brass is like that only on one size, could be a shell holder or press problem.

 

[Maximus Brutus]

Just received by Redding .460 S&W dies.

Firstly, you do not get a .460S&W sizer with this set. The sticker inside the box says:-

NOTE: THIS DIE SET IS ASSEMBLED WITH 45 COLT/454 CASULL TIC SIZER DIE

Well thanks Redding, but I have that die set already which is why I ordered a 460 S&W die set.

In any cases I just resized a few cases, in the same way I would with any pistol case, and sure enough there is now a brass ring at the head of each case. Not sure whether these cases are still safe, or whether they may return to normal size after a firing or two?

In any case (ha) it would seem the best option for 460 S&W cases is not to full length resize and use a 45 Colt/454 resizing die. Interesting that someone has said Starline recommend using this technique. Anyone got a link?

By the way I also have a Lee 460 S&W TC 3-die set. The sizing die is 0.006 bigger than my RCBS 45 Colt/454 die which does not give enough neck tension and allows the bullets to spin freely.

 

[Grumulkin]

In any case (ha) it would seem the best option for 460 S&W cases is not to full length resize and use a 45 Colt/454 resizing die.

Lots of luck with that. If you're loading for a single shot like the Thompson/Center Encore, you'll do fine. If you're loading full power loads for a revolver you won't do so fine.

 

[Walkalong]

Unlike the OP's brass, that looks like they are sized down too far. Granted, a sizer made for .460 may do a better job, and that is frustrating, but I believe if you adjust the sizer up a bit that will stop. The line is where the brass wall meets the web. Adjust the sizer up a bit and see.