Trouble w/UPS and FedEx not shipping

[jr45]

First time for everything I suppose. I purchased a pistol from another resident in VA and having them ship it directly to me (can do this if both parties are residents of the same state). Anyways, the seller has run into a wall at the UPS hub...they are refusing to ship the pistol to a non-FFL recepient. Any suggestions? Here is the link to the UPS policy:
http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/re...nes/firearms.html?srch_pos=1&srch_phr=firearm

 

[Hanafuda]

I'll leave it to the more informed among us to confirm, but I believe ATF regs state you cannot mail a handgun to a non-FFL, even intrastate.

 

[jr45]

You can ship a gun (hand or long) intrastate to non-FFL resident (see section B8 below):
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b1

 

[bamawrx]

Can't you take the gun apart and when they ask what it is just say its "parts".

 

[jr45]

I wish but the receiver is still considered the firearm.

 

[Hanafuda]

well, it turns out to be yes and no, doesn't it? I looked at the faq page linked by jr45, and I was right that you cannot mail a handgun through USPS. It then says you can ship a handgun intrastate to a non-FFL, but only by common or contract carrier. But unless there's a law that says a private carrier like UPS is compelled to allow such shipments, I would think the private company has the right to refuse. Boycott them or whatever, but they're probably within their rights to refuse.

 

[jr45]

They maybe with-in their rights however, this contradicts thier own policy "and from and between persons not otherwise prohibited from shipping firearms by federal, state or local law and when such shipment complies with all applicable federal, state and local laws applicable to the shipper, recipient and package." Has anyone else run into this problem and if so, were you able to rectify it? I've been on the phone w/UPS coporate and they stated that they would ship it but the manager at the hub site still says no I guess one hand is not talking to the other.

 

[3pairs12]

What about the post office. They will ship long guns.

 

[nalioth]

I'll leave it to the more informed among us to confirm, but I believe ATF regs state you cannot mail a handgun to a non-FFL, even intrastate.

You are correct. You cannot mail a handgun anywhere unless you are a Federally licensed dealer. You may ship a handgun via contract carrier to another resident of your state who is able to own such, unless your state laws prohibit it.

The OP is complaining that UPS is not following their own policies.

Shipping a gun - THR

 

[NavyLCDR]

You are SOL. I've talked to UPS corporate office on the phone and by email. Their verbal policy is no shipment to a non-FFL. It contradicts their written tarrif, but they don't care. FEDEX written tarrif forbids non-FFL shipment in writing.

Might want to try a package courier service, don't know what king of luck you would have there.

OR, you can ship it without stating to FEDEX or UPS what is in the package. That is allowed by Federal law, but is against both FEDEX and UPS company policy. The most that could happen is they would lose the gun and not cover it with insurance.

 

[jr45]

I guess I'm SOL. I have shipped firearms via UPS to non-FFL in my state before but it seems than UPS will change their policies at will. Unfortunately, by law, we must notify the carrier that we are shipping a firearm. Like so many other ridicules laws, it only seems to effect the honest ones.

A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]

 

[NavyLCDR]

You are only required to notify the carrier IN WRITING of a firearm under certain conditions. In state shipment is not one of those conditions.

The BATFE faq is in error and has been admitted to be in error by BATFE. The correct law is 18 USC 922:

(e) It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce, to persons other than licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, or licensed collectors, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped; except that any passenger who owns or legally possesses a firearm or ammunition being transported aboard any common or contract carrier for movement with the passenger in interstate or foreign commerce may deliver said firearm or ammunition into the custody of the pilot, captain, conductor or operator of such common or contract carrier for the duration of the trip without violating any of the provisions of this chapter. No common or contract carrier shall require or cause any label, tag, or other written notice to be placed on the outside of any package, luggage, or other container that such package, luggage, or other container contains a firearm.

As can be plainly seen from 18 USC 922 above, the requirement to notify the carrier IN WRITING applies only if the shipment is interstate - state to state, but does NOT apply to shipments within the same state.

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_sec_18_00000922----000-.html

 

[jr45]

Interesting link NavyLT and thanks. I did not know BATF admitted to the error. I see that there is no mention of "intrastate" in the section however; I am no lawyer and knowing my luck, any attempt by me to interpit the law will likely end badly. Anyways, I know the seller will inform the carrier of the contents and I'm still SOL.

 

[rogerjames]

Trouble w/UPS and FedEx not shipping

I just shipped a handgun from Florida to Illinois. I am non FFL, shipped to FFL. UPS only does FFL to FFL. FedEx does non FFL to FFL... but has to go priority overnight. Cost me $62 with declared value. Hope this helps. BTW, had to show Fed Ex copy of recipients FFL license.

If you want to receive it legally, the seller will have to ship Fedex and you will have to find FFL to do transfer.

 

[nalioth]

I just shipped a handgun from Florida to Illinois. I am non FFL, shipped to FFL. UPS only does FFL to FFL. FedEx does non FFL to FFL... but has to go priority overnight. Cost me $62 with declared value. Hope this helps. BTW, had to show Fed Ex copy of recipients FFL license.

If you want to receive it legally, the seller will have to ship Fedex and you will have to find FFL to do transfer.

This is incorrect.

Intrastate transfers can be made with a contract carrier (for any firearm) or US Mail (for long guns).

Do not confuse UPS/FedEx shipping policies for "law".

On a side note, I live in Houston and FedEx won't accept any firearms from me for shipment, no matter if I have the receiving FFL license in hand or not. UPS here has no problems with legal (intrastate or interstate) handgun shipments.

 

[Hikingman]

Rogerjames Fedex informed me that the package had only to be 'packed' by a FFL on my end and I could ship it (and did). This was Fedex Ground. Interesting.

 

[rogerjames]

UPS only does FFL to FFL. FedEx does non FFL to FFL... but has to go priority overnight.

This is incorrect.

This info came from 1 800 UPS/FedEx so I doubt there are differences based on state of residence. I was however inquiring about interstate shipment and not intrastate. That being said...UPS categorically refuse shipment unless both shipper and recipient were FFL.

 

[rogerjames]

Rogerjames Fedex informed me that the package had only to be 'packed' by a FFL on my end and I could ship it (and did). This was Fedex Ground. Interesting.

How did they verify that packing was performed by FFL? Did your FFL charge you anything for this? I was told by Fedex that all zipcodes do not have overnight service and that if it had to go ground... it would require a Fedex ground account

BTW, the first idiot I spoke to at Fedex, told me I would need to get permission from my state laws???? I said listen Bozo, I know my state laws, I want to know what the Fedex requirements are. After about 10 more seconds of uninformative chit chat, I asked to speak to someone who knew what they were talking about. He suggested I hang up and redial the 1-800 number. I did just that and got a very helpful woman that gave me all the pertinent shipping info I requested.

 

[Hikingman]

No proof was required, and no account either. Go Fedex Ground. BTW, when I shipped bookends this week, Fedex did not ask what was in the box, just if I needed insurance over the FREE $100 that is included.

 

[rogerjames]

No proof was required, and no account either. Go Fedex Ground. BTW, when I shipped bookends this week, Fedex did not ask what was in the box, just I needed insurance over the FREE $100 that is included.

Thanks for the info. Note sure if I could of gotten away with the "no tell" trick since the recipients name was "1st Class Firearms", however, maybe if it goes ground I just drop it in a box, and they don't pay much attention. However, I want some tracking info if I am shipping something that valuable. Hmmmmm?

 

[NavyLCDR]

when I shipped bookends this week

Were the "bookends" shaped like firearms?!?