Trouble with 9MM Flat Nose

[Fishingted]

I have a Lot of Berry 124 grain Hollow base Heavy Plate Flat Nose Bullets. I Loaded up some a while back with 4.1 grain of Titegroup at 1.060 COL. Have shot them thru my Glock 27 with a Lonewolf 9MM conversion Barrel with No Issues. They also Dry Shuck thru it and my Beretta 92fs slick as Butter. I have shot some in my Smith&Wesson 9mm pro without a jam YET. They just feel clunky and tight when I try to shuck them thru it. If you know what I mean. Any Round Nose Goes thru my pro Very smoothly.
The flat Nose were even worse In My friends Smith&Wesson 9MM shield and it did not want to feed them properly at all. I did note a lot of difference in how the flat nose bullets set in the different magazines. Don't Know if possibly seating deeper might help or if is safe to do. Berry Bullets recommends that 1.060 COL for that Bullet. Funny Thing is I have that basically same gun in 40S&W caliber and all of them are flat nose but everything works Great In it. It does look Like I could go a bit deeper on The COL but I may just use those in my glock and the Beretta. Just bothers me that I can't rely on them in my Pro as I wanted to use them mainly for target and IDPA.

 

[fxvr5]

You've contradicted yourself.

You just wrote that you've not had a failure to feed in your Pro.

What do you mean they feel tight?

You can change the OAL if you like. Nothing is written in stone.

 

[DocRock]

Truncated cone want loading long to feed well. Load to magazine length and then plunk test for certainty. I was just loading these today in 38 Super. Enjoy.

 

[Fishingted]

Truncated cone want loading long to feed well. Load to magazine length and then plunk test for certainty. I was just loading these today in 38 Super. Enjoy.

Thanks so Much I will give that a try. Was thinking shorter but what you are saying makes sense.

 

[Fishingted]

You've contradicted yourself.

You just wrote that you've not had a failure to feed in your Pro.

What do you mean they feel tight?

You can change the OAL if you like. Nothing is written in stone.

Sorry I meant I don't trust it with it feeling so tight when I try to shuck them thru the gun. and I can feel a tight spot as they feed into chamber. Just kind of a little catch as they feed forward into the chamber.

 

[Fishingted]

Truncated cone want loading long to feed well. Load to magazine length and then plunk test for certainty. I was just loading these today in 38 Super. Enjoy.

I have some 38 special Brass and just got a set of Rcbs dies for that. Can I use those bullets in that.

 

[Fishingted]

I have some 38 special Brass and just got a set of Rcbs dies for that. Can I use those bullets in that.

was just on Berrys Site and they have COL for 357 sig for that bullet so I would think it would load in 38 special.

 

[DocRock]

was just on Berrys Site and they have COL for 357 sig for that bullet so I would think it would load in 38 special.

Agreed. The heavy plating means that they are fought than needed for 38 Spl, but for target loads, they should be fine.

 

[fxvr5]

was just on Berrys Site and they have COL for 357 sig for that bullet so I would think it would load in 38 special.

Why would you come to that conclusion based on 357 Sig data?

 

[Fishingted]

Agreed. The heavy plating means that they are fought than needed for 38 Spl, but for target loads, they should be fine.

Thanks again At Least I can use them for that if nothing else. I don't shoot my Little 38 enough as it is. And I do enjoy shooting it. just ammo so damn hard to get.

 

[Fishingted]

Why would you come to that conclusion based on 357 Sig data?

Just that they recommend it for 357 sig it and 9mm it should fit the 38 special. Am I wrong on that conclusion.

 

[ThomasT]

Depending on the expander ball in the 38 dies you may not be able to roll/taper crimp them tight enough to keep them from creeping out of the case under recoil. Those should be .355 diameter and the 38/357 really needs a .357 bullet especially since there is no crimping groove. And since they are jacketed you shouldn’t reduce the load or you might stick one in the bore.

I would just use the proper diameter bullets in your 38 special.

 

[fxvr5]

Depending on the expander ball in the 38 dies you may not be able to roll/taper crimp them tight enough to keep them from creeping out of the case under recoil. Those should be .355 diameter and the 38/357 really needs a .357 bullet especially since there is no crimping groove. And since they are jacketed you shouldn’t reduce the load or you might stick one in the bore.

I would just use the proper diameter bullets in your 38 special.

They are .356 bullets.

 

[DocRock]

Depending on the expander ball in the 38 dies you may not be able to roll/taper crimp them tight enough to keep them from creeping out of the case under recoil. Those should be .355 diameter and the 38/357 really needs a .357 bullet especially since there is no crimping groove. And since they are jacketed you shouldn’t reduce the load or you might stick one in the bore.

I would just use the proper diameter bullets in your 38 special.

The 124 grs HBTC Barry's plated are . 356" and will be fine in 38 Special. Given the components scarcity, using them makes good sense.

 

[Fishingted]

They are .356 bullets.

You are Right I just Put a Mike on them and they are .356

 

[Fishingted]

They are .356 bullets.

Yes they Mike out at .356

 

[9mmepiphany]

Just that they recommend it for 357 sig it and 9mm it should fit the 38 special. Am I wrong on that conclusion.

The Berry's plated bullet for the 357 SIG is a .356" bullet. Normally you'd load the .38Spl with a .357"/.358" bullet

 

[Fishingted]

The 124 grs HBTC Barry's plated are . 356" and will be fine in 38 Special. Given the components scarcity, using them makes good sense.

Thanks Never loaded 38 special before but I do have dies and components except bullets. I have over a thousand of them. Would be nice to be able to make use of them and get more practice with my little carry 38. Which I actually Love to shoot.

 

[fxvr5]

The 357 SIG uses a .356" bullet

The 357 Sig uses 9mm bullets. As per SAAMI the 9mm and 357 Sig use .3555 bullets.

https://saami.org/wp-content/upload...FP-and-R-Approved-2015-12-14-Posting-Copy.pdf

 

[Fishingted]

Truncated cone want loading long to feed well. Load to magazine length and then plunk test for certainty. I was just loading these today in 38 Super. Enjoy.

I will make up some dummy rounds and give them a try. So that Bullet should also be good for 38 special practice rounds? I have Dies

 

[Fishingted]

The 357 Sig uses 9mm bullets. As per SAAMI the 9mm and 357 Sig use .3555 bullets.

https://saami.org/wp-content/upload...FP-and-R-Approved-2015-12-14-Posting-Copy.pdf

Thanks for the link VERY helpful

 

[Walkalong]

You should be able to tweak the OAL to feed well in your 9MM guns. They can work in .38 Spl with a light taper crimp if you have enough neck tension with that die set, chances are you will, but I would look to find a good OAL for my 9MMs. Some semi autos are a little finicky with TrFP bullets, but most will shoot them well at the right OAL. I quit using those because other styles fed so much better.

 

[forrest r]

The issue you're running into is mechanical meaning you need to look at your different bbl's. More specifically the throting in the bbl, or what you're running into, the lack of a throat.

The bbl mfg's have been putting out bbl's with no throats, 1 less step in the finishing process. These types of bbl's do better with a rn or 2r bullet. Some mfg's like lone wolf make their bbl's tight in the chamber along with no throat & they do extremely well with a .355" jacketed rn/2r bullet. A picture of a bbl that didn't have a throating reamer used on it.

Same bbl with a throat cut into it/throating reamer used on it.


A bbl with no throat likes a bore riding bullet design. Throated bbl's can use/shoot any bullet design. What's happening is the bullet your using looks like a funnel and the angle of the funnel shaped nose is hitting the sharp rim (wall) of the bbl at the end of the chamber. This mandates the oal of your reload. Too short and feeding issues happen. Can't make it longer because the funnel shape of the nose is hitting the bbl where a throat should be.

I will not buy a 9mm semi-auto that doesn't have a throated bbl. I can use/shoot any style of bullet in them. An un-throated bbl not so much.

Stick with rn bullets in un-throated 9mm bbl's, a lot less hassle.

 

[Fishingted]

The issue you're running into is mechanical meaning you need to look at your different bbl's. More specifically the throting in the bbl, or what you're running into, the lack of a throat.

The bbl mfg's have been putting out bbl's with no throats, 1 less step in the finishing process. These types of bbl's do better with a rn or 2r bullet. Some mfg's like lone wolf make their bbl's tight in the chamber along with no throat & they do extremely well with a .355" jacketed rn/2r bullet. A picture of a bbl that didn't have a throating reamer used on it.
View attachment 964256
Same bbl with a throat cut into it/throating reamer used on it.
View attachment 964257

A bbl with no throat likes a bore riding bullet design. Throated bbl's can use/shoot any bullet design. What's happening is the bullet your using looks like a funnel and the angle of the funnel shaped nose is hitting the sharp rim (wall) of the bbl at the end of the chamber. This mandates the oal of your reload. Too short and feeding issues happen. Can't make it longer because the funnel shape of the nose is hitting the bbl where a throat should be.

I will not buy a 9mm semi-auto that doesn't have a throated bbl. I can use/shoot any style of bullet in them. An un-throated bbl not so much.

Stick with rn bullets in un-throated 9mm bbl's, a lot less hassle.

Wow That explains a Lot. Especially the Snagging I feel during the forward slide Movement. Also the fact that they don't feed smoothly thru Two Smith&Wesson 9MM Barrels. Mine and a Shield model That I wouldn't even try to shoot them In. The Good news is I have Plenty Of Round Nose in that weight and The flat nose have No Issues going thru My Glock 27 LW 9mm conversion barrel as well a my Beretta 92. And I am pretty sure I can Use them to make some 38 Special practice loads. Seeing as I have well over a Thousand of them that is a Good thing. I REALLY Thank You for Your Help as I believe you have hit the Nail on the Head.

 

[fxvr5]

What forrest r has described is a situation where the bullet is jammed into the lands when or before the round is fully seated. In this instance, the round might get stuck in the chamber if you try to extract an unfired round because the bullet is stuck in the riflings. You can test this by doing the 'plunk and rotate test' described at the link below. If your loaded rounds pass the plunk and rotate test, then that's not what's happening.

https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/reloading-tips-the-plunk-test/99389