Texan53
Member
Deleted - sorry, wrong thread.
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Trying to decide on First Firearm
- Thread starter raiderred11k
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1stmarine
Member
Glock = AK47 of the pistols.
alot of shooters I know never wanted a .22(including myself at one time) but then they started shooting alot and found how expensive 45acp is. the idea of a 22 will grow on you.
on the cheap end of the spectrum
1,000 rounds of .22 can be had for 40$
1,000 rounds of .45 is gonna cost 350$
on the cheap end of the spectrum
1,000 rounds of .22 can be had for 40$
1,000 rounds of .45 is gonna cost 350$
BCRider
Member
It's never "cool" to buy a .22 for your first gun. But keep an open mind on the subject and you may find that it's a good option for your second gun.
If you find yourself developing a bad flinch take your new gun to the rental range and rent a .22 to sit on the bench beside your new Glock/PX4/Whatever. Load and shoot some .22 working on grip and trigger control. When you're shooting nice tight groups switch to the center fire and work on keeping the same grip, trigger and mental discipline going. When the flinch returns in a half mag or so unload and clear and go back to the .22 for a while.
Shooting to avoid flinch is as much a matter of mind control over yourself as it is of practice. Here's a bit I've posted before about trigger control. It helped me and I've heard from others that it helped them. The idea of fully pulling the trigger all the way isn't my idea. Just explained in my own words. But the rest about isolating the trigger finger and the mental disassociation from recoil is what I found worked best for me.
I'll also echo the thought that if you make shooting a sport as well as use the gun for defense that you'll be a better all around shooter. Home invaders don't stand politely by like targets so working under as much pressure as you can find is as good as you're going to get for preparedness training. And for many an RO with a timer behind you as you run though an IDPA or IPSC stage is as close as it can get legally and morally this side of getting into practice sessions with the local SWAT team using simunition.
_____________________
You should start with the dry firing with an empty case perched on the barrel. It's a great way to ensure that your trigger finger is the ONLY thing that is moving. With some sort of DA hammer you should be able to pull the trigger 10 or more times in a row without the empty casing falling off. Keep it up until you can.
How you pull the trigger makes a big difference too. I like to tell first timers that you don't pull the trigger. You build finger pressure on it until it has moved fully to the rear of the frame. Note I didn't say "until it fires". You want to "Zen" your way past the point of firing and concentrate on a smooth and even building of pressure until the trigger has moved as far as it's going to move. The gun will drop the hammer somewhere along the way. And when it happens it should be a surprise. Pulling only to the firing point is setting yourself up for more flinching because you're training yourself to expect it. You want to work on losing that sense of expectation. To replace it you want to narrow your view to the sight picture and the building of pressure on the trigger with the muscles for that one finger being the ONLY muscles in action. Nothing more, nothing less. This last bit you can try out by holding a stick or other handgun grip shaped object and look at your forearms and hands while making trigger pulling motions. Any tendon action on the backs of your hands other than the one working the trigger finger is cause for failure and needs to be addressed. The grip you hold the gun with should be that of a firm but friendly handshake. Don't try to mash it.
After all this dry firing and case balancing and hand therapy take a .22 and a center fire with you to the range. Get into the flow of all you've practiced with the .22. By now you should be noticing tighter groups due to the grip and trigger finger isolation drills. When you're firmly into the whole flow smoothly transition to the center fire gun and work at maintaining the isolation from the recoil while concentrating on the sight picture and trigger pull. When you notice you're getting back some flinch switch back to the .22. Do NOT switch back to the center fire until you get back the sense of isolation from the recoil. Also for the time being maybe just load 5 or 6 rounds of center fire so you don't end up shooting to "flinch disaster" levels again.
When you get it right you'll find that your CF groups are as tight as your rimfire groups. Repeat these .22 therapy sessions as required until you and flinch part ways. Just be aware that "Flinch" is like a bad penny and can turn up again. But some .22 Therapy can send him back to the depths whenever it's needed.
If you find yourself developing a bad flinch take your new gun to the rental range and rent a .22 to sit on the bench beside your new Glock/PX4/Whatever. Load and shoot some .22 working on grip and trigger control. When you're shooting nice tight groups switch to the center fire and work on keeping the same grip, trigger and mental discipline going. When the flinch returns in a half mag or so unload and clear and go back to the .22 for a while.
Shooting to avoid flinch is as much a matter of mind control over yourself as it is of practice. Here's a bit I've posted before about trigger control. It helped me and I've heard from others that it helped them. The idea of fully pulling the trigger all the way isn't my idea. Just explained in my own words. But the rest about isolating the trigger finger and the mental disassociation from recoil is what I found worked best for me.
I'll also echo the thought that if you make shooting a sport as well as use the gun for defense that you'll be a better all around shooter. Home invaders don't stand politely by like targets so working under as much pressure as you can find is as good as you're going to get for preparedness training. And for many an RO with a timer behind you as you run though an IDPA or IPSC stage is as close as it can get legally and morally this side of getting into practice sessions with the local SWAT team using simunition.
_____________________
You should start with the dry firing with an empty case perched on the barrel. It's a great way to ensure that your trigger finger is the ONLY thing that is moving. With some sort of DA hammer you should be able to pull the trigger 10 or more times in a row without the empty casing falling off. Keep it up until you can.
How you pull the trigger makes a big difference too. I like to tell first timers that you don't pull the trigger. You build finger pressure on it until it has moved fully to the rear of the frame. Note I didn't say "until it fires". You want to "Zen" your way past the point of firing and concentrate on a smooth and even building of pressure until the trigger has moved as far as it's going to move. The gun will drop the hammer somewhere along the way. And when it happens it should be a surprise. Pulling only to the firing point is setting yourself up for more flinching because you're training yourself to expect it. You want to work on losing that sense of expectation. To replace it you want to narrow your view to the sight picture and the building of pressure on the trigger with the muscles for that one finger being the ONLY muscles in action. Nothing more, nothing less. This last bit you can try out by holding a stick or other handgun grip shaped object and look at your forearms and hands while making trigger pulling motions. Any tendon action on the backs of your hands other than the one working the trigger finger is cause for failure and needs to be addressed. The grip you hold the gun with should be that of a firm but friendly handshake. Don't try to mash it.
After all this dry firing and case balancing and hand therapy take a .22 and a center fire with you to the range. Get into the flow of all you've practiced with the .22. By now you should be noticing tighter groups due to the grip and trigger finger isolation drills. When you're firmly into the whole flow smoothly transition to the center fire gun and work at maintaining the isolation from the recoil while concentrating on the sight picture and trigger pull. When you notice you're getting back some flinch switch back to the .22. Do NOT switch back to the center fire until you get back the sense of isolation from the recoil. Also for the time being maybe just load 5 or 6 rounds of center fire so you don't end up shooting to "flinch disaster" levels again.
When you get it right you'll find that your CF groups are as tight as your rimfire groups. Repeat these .22 therapy sessions as required until you and flinch part ways. Just be aware that "Flinch" is like a bad penny and can turn up again. But some .22 Therapy can send him back to the depths whenever it's needed.
1stmarine
Member
..And have no doubt any of the common calibers will do the job with good placement. in 9mm corbon JHP +P is rated top of the line in terminal effectivness.
I would say worry more about what you feel comfortable shooting and carrying and for all those reasons what you are going to carry more and shoot better.
9mm and 357 SIG are all about speed so I would choose those if I am planning a larger pistol.
40 cal and 45ACP are better options in shorter barrels like compacts.
Any of he above will take care of business. In your plan is more important that you take into account a weekly IDPA type of training than anything else.
Your brain and conditioning is more important than the caliber you are carrying. So get a simple yet nice reliable pistol and don't worry more about caliber options in terms of terminal ballistics and lethality potential than you worry about a regular routine with defensive pistol drills and tactics.
My top choice is 357 SIG if I Am carrying a full size pistol but I actually carry any of the ones above and do not feel a lot more secure with one or the other as soon as I know I am good and feel good with that one pistol.
Cheers.
I would say worry more about what you feel comfortable shooting and carrying and for all those reasons what you are going to carry more and shoot better.
9mm and 357 SIG are all about speed so I would choose those if I am planning a larger pistol.
40 cal and 45ACP are better options in shorter barrels like compacts.
Any of he above will take care of business. In your plan is more important that you take into account a weekly IDPA type of training than anything else.
Your brain and conditioning is more important than the caliber you are carrying. So get a simple yet nice reliable pistol and don't worry more about caliber options in terms of terminal ballistics and lethality potential than you worry about a regular routine with defensive pistol drills and tactics.
My top choice is 357 SIG if I Am carrying a full size pistol but I actually carry any of the ones above and do not feel a lot more secure with one or the other as soon as I know I am good and feel good with that one pistol.
Cheers.
I have never liked the recoil of the glock in either 9mm or .40 cal.
I saw that you said that someday a 1911 is in your future, but didn't notice if you have fired one yet. I have found the .45 in a 1911 to be preferable in recoil (as well as many other things).
My first handgun was the Ruger p345 and really liked it. As many have suggested, for me to get proficient to where I wanted to be shooting the .45 was pretty spendy, and I bought a Ruger Hunter .22 three weeks later.
A month or so later I was robbed and insurance covered my losses, thanks USAA! and went and bought a Smith and Wesson M41 .22. Living near to a range, I was able to go nearly as frequently as any impulse and shot many thousands of rounds with the .22, Bullseye style as a guy next to me on the range showed me. Trigger control was quickly being mastered!
Since then the 1911s have come along and have "mastered" them, mainly due to the time spent on the M41 providing me with a base of skills developed from thousands of .22s. (I am sure what skills I had from the .22 were the primary reason that my learning curve on the 1911 was shorter than if I had not had all the trigger time on the .22)
That said, as others have posted, if you don't get the .22 right away, and go with one of the "larger calibers", dry firing can't be stressed enough as way to improve your shooting.
So if I was you with the initial budget I would get a ruger .22 for a few hundred dollars and a used 1911 as well for a few hundred dollars, especially if you are going to be getting a high end 1911 down the road.
I saw that you said that someday a 1911 is in your future, but didn't notice if you have fired one yet. I have found the .45 in a 1911 to be preferable in recoil (as well as many other things).
My first handgun was the Ruger p345 and really liked it. As many have suggested, for me to get proficient to where I wanted to be shooting the .45 was pretty spendy, and I bought a Ruger Hunter .22 three weeks later.
A month or so later I was robbed and insurance covered my losses, thanks USAA! and went and bought a Smith and Wesson M41 .22. Living near to a range, I was able to go nearly as frequently as any impulse and shot many thousands of rounds with the .22, Bullseye style as a guy next to me on the range showed me. Trigger control was quickly being mastered!
Since then the 1911s have come along and have "mastered" them, mainly due to the time spent on the M41 providing me with a base of skills developed from thousands of .22s. (I am sure what skills I had from the .22 were the primary reason that my learning curve on the 1911 was shorter than if I had not had all the trigger time on the .22)
That said, as others have posted, if you don't get the .22 right away, and go with one of the "larger calibers", dry firing can't be stressed enough as way to improve your shooting.
So if I was you with the initial budget I would get a ruger .22 for a few hundred dollars and a used 1911 as well for a few hundred dollars, especially if you are going to be getting a high end 1911 down the road.
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Skylerbone
Member
I've made this suggestion several times to those hesitant to pony up for a .22 but want to practice for proficiency. For $40 or so you could buy one of these: http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=974008 in the platform of your choice (link to a .177 pellet pistol). That, a pellet trap and a basement will allow you as much practice as you can stand with enough money left over for the real deal.
FWIW I think the only uncool thing one can bring to the range is a lack of skill. Missing shot after shot is (I hear ;-) much more embarrassing than any .22 ever could be.
FWIW I think the only uncool thing one can bring to the range is a lack of skill. Missing shot after shot is (I hear ;-) much more embarrassing than any .22 ever could be.
StrutStopper
Member
- Joined
- Jul 5, 2011
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In my opinion the .40 Px4 Storm full size pistol feels like a 9mm. Thats me though, I'd advise you to try it yourself or check other online sources for other opinions. One nice thing about the beretta is the cartridge is more fully supported in .40 so shooting reloads probably won't lead to the gun blowing up in your hand.
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