Turret or Progressive?

[375supermag]

Hi...
I started out as many do with a Lee single stage and then a Lee 1000 progressive press. I was not happy with either and eventually took them off the bench and purchased a RockChucker. I have used that press for many years now and still use it today for my big bore revolver cartridges in batches up to 4-500 rounds.
Several years ago, I decided I needed to upgrade to a progressive for semi auto pistol cartridges as well as .357Magnum reloading.
I settled on a Hornady LnL and am well pleased with it. My son runs it and can easily crank out 500 rounds in just over an hour.
I eventually bought a second LnL at auction and set it up for large primer reloading and the first one is used for dedicated small primer reloading. Both are used every week or two for 9mm, 10mm, .40S&W and .45ACP reloading as well as .357Magnum reloading.
My son uses a RockChucker Supreme for reloading our rifle cartridges. We usually load them in fairly small batches so high volume reloading isn't necessary except for .223 which he has transitioned to the LnL.

I have two Dillon 550s that I bought for very good prices at auction but simply haven't gotten around to setting either one up yet. The plan is to set one up for large primer big bore revolver cartridge reloading but I continue to use my RockChucker for the time being.
I will get it set up because more and more big bore revolvers and lever action rifles keep getting added to the collection. It is becoming more difficult to maintain ammunition stocks loading for them on my RockChucker. I generally spend one day prepping brass(resizing, depriming and flaring) and then another day priming cases and then two days dumping powder charges and seating bullets for .41Mag, .44Mag, .45Colt, .44Spl and .45AutoRim. I need to transition those calibers over to the Dillon 550, so I can devote more time to specialty loads and load development work.

The thing is I really enjoy loading revolver rounds on my RockChucker and am being stubborn about changing over to the Dillon even though I know I need to do it. It really isn't even a time issue as I am retired and have plenty of free time. Just stubbornness and hard headed, I suppose.

 

[Typetwelve]

For example, I use a turret press to size and expand necks. When auto indexing, I have to pull the arm 4 times to cycle the turret head, even though I am only actually performing two operations. But operationally, my right hand cranks the two sizing operation strokes while my left hand grabs the next case, a brief pause while my left hand swaps the sized case out and the fresh case in, then my right hand idles the press through two more strokes to bring the sizer back around as I dump that case into the finished bin with my left hand, and reach for the next. Putting my single stage Forster Co-Ax or Lee Anniversary single stage presses on the clock against the LCT, for this operation, I finish my two step sizing somewhere between half and two thirds the time with the LCT as it takes with the single stage presses. Total machine uptime is greater (% of time working/time available).

This is one area where the Dillon 550 is a real winner. I specifically chose it because it doesn't auto index. I can run the press in any number of ways. I often process brass half way to store for later. For instance, I may land up getting a 460 plate for my 550 so I can prime and flare on it, then keep the brass "ready" for single stage seating and crimping later.

 

[Texas10mm]

I have been using the same single-stage press for about 15 years. It is ok for precision rifle loads where I am only producing 20 ish rounds at a time. But I often produce 200 - 600 handgun rounds at a time and need to speed things up. I cannot determine which would be better, a progressive loader, or a turret. Your thoughts?

If you complete your profile and input a location it's a great help. If you were close to me for instance, I'd say come on over and run my Dillon 650 presses for a bit.

Ultimately, I did go big and decided on a Dillon 750. It is an investment that will take a long time to see any monetary returns. I took the expense out of my decision making process. To justify a new progressive press I thought of my new press purchase as an upgrade to my hobby and not a money saver.

I've loaded 30k+ of 9mm this year. I cast my own bullets. Loaded rounds are running me $5/100. I've already paid for a new 750 if I chose to buy one. Loading something like 10mm, or 45 ACP and the ROI comes much quicker.

 

[cfullgraf]

But the advantage of a turret press over a single stage press remains - a huge percentage of your cycle time is spent in case transfers in and out of the press, and less transfers happen with a turret than a single stage.

Well, the Lee LCT with its auto index of the turret is a different animal than most turret presses. It affords some advantages over a single stage press and a conventional turret press..

But, I'd rather size and mouth expand on a progressive press than a Lee LCT. Once a case is inserted into the shell plate of a progressive it proceeds through the various dies without intervention from me. I get a sized and mouth expanded case with each pull of the press's handle. That is more efficient in my book than pulling the press handle four times to run a case through a Lee LCT for resizing and getting the turret back to position zero.

Lots of folks think if you are not using a progressive to process cases from fired case to loaded ammunition you are wasting some of the features of the press. I disagree. See my post #21.

With most turret presses, I'd rather take the money saved by buying a single stage press to buy other reloading equipment.

But, what ever floats your boat concerning turret presses is ok by me.

 

[JulietTango]

I like my Hornady LnL AP

+1

 

[rdnktrkr]

If you remove the square plastic index washer from the shaft you can move the turret back and forth manually, I have turrets dedicated to case prep with 2 different size and trim dies in each, then hand prime, then load with another turret. I like the openness of a C press for the universal decapping die.
I've looked into a progressive but I don't think I shoot enough to justify it YET

 

[Doc Lambert]

No need for me to make any suggestion. The Loadmaster has seen some well deserved improvements over the years and if you go to youtube you can find many videos on how to tweak it or you can also go over and sign up at http://lee-loader.com/index.php ... Enjoy the adventure and added productivity.

One of the best upgrades you can make if loading 9mm is this trick;

Thanks for the site recommendation. I registered today.

 

[MikelLikesIt]

For high volume handgun ammunition loading, I prefer a progressive. But if I’m honest, buying huge volumes in bulk has penciled out to be worthwhile for me, rather than handloading my current high volume pistol loads.

If nothing else, give it a run on a cheap Lee progressive - they work well enough for you to get a taste, and decide if the cost is worth the speed to upgrade to a Dillon or Hornady.

Thought the same way, bought a Lee loadmaster. Being mechanically inclined, doing the necessary mods were accessible to my skills. And I’ve done plenty. Still working on one I havent seen anyone mention yet. It will refeed its decapped primers into the primer feeder and reinstall them. Yes, I have proof. Pictures. When you get upside down primers also right side up in brass that you arent even priming... (using decapper station 1, resizing in 2 then cleaning, only using 2 to test my theories and mods). But once the primer issue is solved, it will actually be reliable.

 

[TTv2]

While the OP's already chosen, I think it's a good question to always ask when one wants to go beyond just getting into reloading and wants to speed up over a single stage.

That said, with presses like the Lee APP available where it feeds cases automatically, one can buy that press and do sizing and flaring operations very quickly. This would just leave priming and charging the case and seating/crimping in one op or separate ops on a different single stage press. I think once all is set, a person could do 100 rounds an hour.

The Lee Turret is pretty quick as well, but nowhere near as quick as a progressive, however the deal with a progressive is if you're looking to shoot 200+ rounds every range trip, it's kind of a pricey hassle to setup a progressive if you do multiple calibers. Like, if you only load two calibers, you can get a progressive and the changeovers not be a big deal, but if you're like me and you're doing .32 Mag, .327, .32 ACP, .38, .357, 10mm, .45 ACP, .45 Colt, and getting into 7.62x25... you're not going to be enjoying the amount of changeovers with a progressive.

So, before you buy you really have to consider:
-what you're currently shooting most of
-what you'd like to shoot more of
-what is keeping you from shooting more of what you want to shoot
-Are you going to shoot enough more to the point that a progressive is the right way to go

The Lee progressives are not that much money, but if you're averse to the idea of a Lee progressive, any other progressive is going to increase cost quick. If you're not looking to shoot more than 200 rds each trip to the range, the LCT is worth considering. It's an easy press to changeover given it uses a standard shellholder so you don't have to bother with a shellplate and the turret head is replaceable and costs $12.

I can bang out about 80 rds an hour on my LCT once I get everything going.

 

[TTv2]

Well, the Lee LCT with its auto index of the turret is a different animal than most turret presses. It affords some advantages over a single stage press and a conventional turret press..

But, I'd rather size and mouth expand on a progressive press than a Lee LCT. Once a case is inserted into the shell plate of a progressive it proceeds through the various dies without intervention from me. I get a sized and mouth expanded case with each pull of the press's handle. That is more efficient in my book than pulling the press handle four times to run a case through a Lee LCT for resizing and getting the turret back to position zero.

Lots of folks think if you are not using a progressive to process cases from fired case to loaded ammunition you are wasting some of the features of the press. I disagree. See my post #21.

With most turret presses, I'd rather take the money saved by buying a single stage press to buy other reloading equipment.

But, what ever floats your boat concerning turret presses is ok by me.

The progressive method of reloading is more efficient, but that's a very narrow view excluding everything else that involves reloading. I said in my last post that if you're reloading a lot of calibers, but not in huge quantities, you will likely be better served using a combination of single stage presses and/or the LCT. If you're shooting thousands or rds of 9mm go progressive and you'll be happy.

I do agree in that other turrets that aren't Lee are largely a waste. When you can get quick change die bushings it takes what once was a slow die changing single stage and turns it into a quicker moving press, not as quick as a turret, but definitely much stronger than a turret and less expensive.

 

[mjsdwash]

Look up the RCBS lockout die on a few pages, and read the reviews. There is a scary amount of people talking about how "This has already caught 3 double charges!" and similar. I know a lot of these people started out on a progressive, which is a terrible idea, while your not.
I would recommend a Lee 4 hole, and a lot of patience to get used to it.
I use a lee 4 hole for all rifle, and a few pistol cals, and a Loadmaster for 9mm, and 38spl
For the 9mm, Its great because I can actually check each case charge before putting the bullet it, and still meet 500 rounds/hour. If you go that rout or any reader, PM me and I'll tell you how I got the case feeder and primer system to work good enough to do it.
For 38, which I can't see into, I load in two stages, size/deprime, and reprime on the first run, and charge, lockout die, and bullet on the second. This still equals 300-400 rounds/hour.

 

[mjsdwash]

to those people who are talking about the case collator modifications for the 9mm on Loadmasters, theres an easier option.
When your getting your bolt down hardware, the same size bolt that fits into mounting holes will easily thread into the center hole of the collator. Put a 5/16 washer and a short bolt in, and your have it working for 25c... and your already probably at the hardware store, or have that on hand. Best part, it removes in a few seconds, and goes back in in a few seconds making caliber swaps easier.

 

[cfullgraf]

The progressive method of reloading is more efficient, but that's a very narrow view excluding everything else that involves reloading. I said in my last post that if you're reloading a lot of calibers, but not in huge quantities, you will likely be better served using a combination of single stage presses and/or the LCT. If you're shooting thousands or rds of 9mm go progressive and you'll be happy.

I'll agree if you need is to loads lots of ammunition in a short period of time. You need all the auxiliary equipment to automate as much of the process as possible with a progressive press. Cartridge changes then become time consuming.

But, if you do not use a case feeder or a bullet feeder and prime off the press, cartridge changes on a progressive press are quick. I can load small batches faster and more efficiently than with a single stage press.

I do most of my handgun case prep, sizing and mouth expanding, on my Hornady L-N-L. Generally, an afternoon of shooting is a 200-300 hundred rounds of a couple different cartridges. I prep the cases for reloading shortly after shooting them. From an afternoon of shooting, I can size and expand the mouth of the cases in less than 15-20 minutes including swapping out dies for each cartridge change. I then clean the cases and store the cases away for a future loading session.

When I do load, I prime off the press with either a hand primer tool or a bench primer tool. The cases are then loaded on a progressive. Many cartridges are loaded on the Hornady L-N-L. But I load 45 ACP and 9x19 on Dillon SDBs and 460 S&W Mag on a Dillon BL550. I hand feed the cases to the press and hand seat the bullets on the cases.

Since I do not have to change over a case feeder, a bullet feeder and the primer system, cartridges changes are quick on my progressive presses.

And, I still load more ammunition faster than I can shoot it. I load 17 different handgun cartridges, all on one progressive or another. Besides, I enjoy reloading as a hobby unto itself.

Everybody has their favorite process for loading ammunition. I have no use for turret presses, Lee or otherwise.

 

[JO JO]

For a turret press I have been happy with my redding t7

 

[Skeeter300]

I learned on a Redding T-7 and it is a great press. After using the press for a year I wanted to speed up the process, so I added a Dillon 550C. I loved the 550 so much that I added a XL750. I still use the T-7 for depriming and test loads.

 

[roque5]

I prefer to hand prime so a Lyman T-Mag as been my go to for years. Yes it is slower than a progressive but I have zero issues with the operation or the finished rounds, I still keep my rockchucker attached to the bench.

 

[TTv2]

I'll agree if you need is to loads lots of ammunition in a short period of time. You need all the auxiliary equipment to automate as much of the process as possible with a progressive press. Cartridge changes then become time consuming.

But, if you do not use a case feeder or a bullet feeder and prime off the press, cartridge changes on a progressive press are quick. I can load small batches faster and more efficiently than with a single stage press.

I do most of my handgun case prep, sizing and mouth expanding, on my Hornady L-N-L. Generally, an afternoon of shooting is a 200-300 hundred rounds of a couple different cartridges. I prep the cases for reloading shortly after shooting them. From an afternoon of shooting, I can size and expand the mouth of the cases in less than 15-20 minutes including swapping out dies for each cartridge change. I then clean the cases and store the cases away for a future loading session.

When I do load, I prime off the press with either a hand primer tool or a bench primer tool. The cases are then loaded on a progressive. Many cartridges are loaded on the Hornady L-N-L. But I load 45 ACP and 9x19 on Dillon SDBs and 460 S&W Mag on a Dillon BL550. I hand feed the cases to the press and hand seat the bullets on the cases.

Since I do not have to change over a case feeder, a bullet feeder and the primer system, cartridges changes are quick on my progressive presses.

And, I still load more ammunition faster than I can shoot it. I load 17 different handgun cartridges, all on one progressive or another. Besides, I enjoy reloading as a hobby unto itself.

Everybody has their favorite process for loading ammunition. I have no use for turret presses, Lee or otherwise.

Your method sounds similar to mine in that you'll size and flare the cases and put them away for later. That's what I do with the APP press, however that does one case in one die per pull, while you are doing two cases in two dies per pull. No doubt faster than the APP, but IMO for a progressive it's a press that I want to "set and forget" in that once it's set up for a particular load, it stays set up for that load. That's for stuff I want to shoot hundreds of rounds a range trip, stuff like 10mm.

For everything else, I'm fine with 50-100 rds because I mostly shoot revolvers and that's plenty for revolver shooting. Again, it's all specific to each shooter.

What I like most about getting the sizing and flaring done and going back to those cases later is I've found over time that I prefer charging cases off the press with the Lee PPM as it's very, very accurate and I can see in each case that there is powder. Having the cases ready for charging and bullet seating gives me more control over the process.

 

[GBExpat]

... But I often produce 200 - 600 handgun rounds at a time and need to speed things up. I cannot determine which would be better, a progressive loader, or a turret. Your thoughts?

Sounds to me like you would be happier with a Progressive.

I used an RCBS JR3 single stage starting in the mid'70s and ~6 years ago upgraded to a Lee Classic Turret press (LCT).

When using my LCT and I am In-The-Zone I can produce ~200 pistol rounds per hour.

With an InlineFab accessory (https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/lct-inlinefab-1hr-production-rate.806894/ ) my production ceiling is increased by ~50%.

All Progressives about which I have read can easily beat that production rate.

Enjoy!

 

[Crazy Horse]

I have a Lyman American 8 turret press and a Hornady LnL AP press. Last week I helped a friend get his Lee 4 hole turret press setup as he is new to reloading.

Here's my take. If you plan on loading precision type rifle rounds, the Turret is your friend. You can get very precise and it is faster than a single stage press. I still have it and using for the same purpose that Skeeter300 does-removed seated bullets and to work up loads when working with a new load.

If you plan on reloading primarily handgun loads, the Hornady LnL is excellent. I use it for 380, 9mm, 38 special, 357 magnum, 44 spl/mag, and 45acp. No issues and it works well. I only had one part break and it was operator error. I contacted Hornady and they shipped a replacement part right away, free of charge. Haven't had any problems with it.

Lastly, if you are on a budget and can find a Lee 4 hole turret press, Lee in my opinion is a very good option. It's simple, and the parts don't seem to be as heavy duty. I will add that Lee aims to pass on savings to customer so the parts will function efficiently and are tested for reliability-According to their website.

One observation between both the Hornady and Lee is that with the Hornady, you get a completed bullet with every pull. With the Lee, you pull 4 times before getting a completed bullet. So Hornady in this aspect is quickly, but when you are reloading and in the zone, you focus on both reloading accuracy over speed.

You won't go wrong with whichever purchase you make, just be sure you research each press before jumping in. In hindsight, I am glad I started with the Turret press, and also glad I purchased the Hornady. But, the Lee would have filled the same purpose -but maybe not as fast and the Hornday -at a lower cost.

Good luck.

CH