LCT + InlineFab 1hr production rate

[GBExpat]

My LCT+InlineFab 9x19 1hr Production Rate is currently 300+ rounds.

In another recent LCT + InlineFab Review Thread (OP: RandyP), a question of Real World production speed came up.

I thought it a valid question worth some effort to investigate.

This morning I had some time (and attitude and prepped cases) to give my rough, extrapolated estimate of ~300/hr a test.

9x19 w/5.8gr BE-86 under an X-Treme 124gr CP HP.

I had 5 100ct containers of brass from my chamfering session several days ago, so I dumped 3 of those in a tray. The bullets I retrieved from their original 500ct corrugated cardboard "X-Treme" box.

The Lee Safety Prime primer tray mounted on the LCT appeared to have about 180 WSP in it, so I prepped a 2nd tray with 200 for ease of resupply at the halfway point.

The InlineFab Kit came with 2 hanging collection boxes, so I decided to populate one until the 30min point and then replace it with the empty one so that I could determine any delta in production between the 2 half hour periods.

I activated the timer & started the run ...

When the 30 minutes expired, I finished the round in the press and restared the timer for the 2nd 30 minutes ... I then swapped out the collection boxes, swapped out the primer trays, turned the fan on me (warm work in a warm basement ), took a hit a coffee, settled onto the seat once more and resumed reloading ...

When I finished loading the 300th cartridge I reached over and stopped the timer; 1:49 remaining ... and, no, while I was running this test I only looked at the timer at the halfway point and at the end. I purposefully placed it out of my line of sight to help me to resist the urge.

I retrieved 3 100ct MTM CaseGard boxes and transferred the 1stHalfHour cartridges into 2 of them; 152.

When I transferred the 2ndHalfHour cases, I found that I had not loaded 300 cases, but 302 because the total was 150.

I am still unlearning my prior "anti-clockwise" training and becoming comfortable with the "clockwise" rotation of things. The 2ndHalfHour felt smoother than the first which may be reflected in the fact that the production rate is identical even though the "housekeeping" items ate into the 2nd time period.

At no time was I trying to drive myself to beat the clock. All that I did was try to slide into & stay in The Zone. My brief periods in that place were definitely more frequent in the 2nd period.

Standard "silly things" occurred thoughout the test. The Safety Prime would periodically spit the primer out, the bullet would periodically slump sideways, I would lose focus and have to pause and regain it, etc.

With the improved clockwise training experience, I think that I could reasonably expect to produce at least 320/hr.

At the end of the hour, I was not exhausted or sore and feel sure that I could easily keep up the pace for at least another half hour ... but I have always found that during "production runs" the 1hr mark is a perfect time for a Break.

===================

I originally thought that it might be worthwhile for me to likewise test my original-LCT-setup ~200/hr observation from a year ago, but I have decided that I do not wish to hassle with it, especially since it will only serve to mess with my new, improving "clockwise" training.

There it is.

Be aware that just because with my setup *I* can produce this many per hour does not mean that everyone can ... and there are probably some folks who produce greater amounts in their production runs.

 

[GBExpat]

BTW, from that original Thread, drband's late post really got me to thinking about this subject.

Interesting discussion of loading rates on the LCT. I have (and like) the kit from Inline Fab. I regularly load about 200 cases per hour if I'm "in the zone" depending on which caliber I'm loading. I don't think I'll ever see 300 per hour. Before I installed the case kicker kit, I struggled to load 100-125 per hour. Now, with the kit AND the ergo roller lever, 200 is the norm. It's not a progressive, but I don't need or want a progressive. It's fast enough and its relatively easy to monitor every case at every stage of the process. Just get comfortable with your equipment and enjoy the process.

This made it very apparent to me just how different our approaches & results must be when using, nominally, the same equipment.

IMO, drband is right.

And "in the zone" is a comfortable place, not a "gotstago faster!", bleeding-eyeballs-hair-on-fire speed place.

 

[RandyP]

Nice post - thanks -

All I'll add is that the Inline Fab Case Kicker full boat kit is right up there in the top 5 BEST expenditures I've made in this hobby. And it was a mere $65.

I have NO problem touting the virtues of this fine after-market accessory on every reloading forum I haunt.

 

[1KPerDay]

Cool and thanks for the test. I imagine that my individual method with the standard is faster but I'll have to do a full hour timer. The videos I've seen demonstrating the case kicker have shown a much slower rate of production than I manage. Would the OP possibly be able to just do a quick video of his in action, say about a minute's worth? No big deal if not.

 

[GBExpat]

Sorry, 1KPerDay, I don't do videos.

One thing that I noticed during a comfortable, steady-motion, In-The-Zone moment when first using this new setup on the 9x19s several days ago, was that the cartridges were kicking every 10 seconds.

So that may represent close to a non-RealWorld Ideal, a hard ceiling, for my circumstances; ~360/hr.

I used that rate to guesstimate the 300/hr rate originally. I simply added 20% overhead to the operation.

One thing that I know, for sure, about controlling the production speed ... *I* cannot artificially push the operation without actually slowing down production. Chasing the clock, so to speak, causes me to make mistakes, get frustrated, lose focus, etc ... and it all becomes Not Fun for me.

Any increase in speed that I realize is tied to that comfortable, relaxed, almost-autonomic In-The-Zone motion.

I find it nice to know that, with setup & breakdown, in 90 minutes I can crank out ~300 of one of my favorite, proven flavors of pistol ammo.

 

[mdi]

Good report, but if I wanted a high round-per-hour count, I'd just go with a Dllion 650... I have a Lee turret but I have removed the auto index and hand index when reloading. I like reloading so I don't rush through it...

(Don't you just hate it when you go through a lot of work, timing, recording, testing, and some idiot has a post like this one?)

 

[GBExpat]

... (Don't you just hate it when you go through a lot of work, timing, recording, testing, and some idiot has a post like this one?)

Hahaha ... not at all.

Most of my LCT time will probably not be spent in "production mode".

I like the fact that my LCT setup now allows me the flexibility to match what I did for decades on my old RCBS JR3 single stage press in addition to handling pistol cartridge reload volumes up to about 300rds/hr.

I still even use loading blocks for many operations, but much prefer, when I have to produce a quantity of ammo, to do it much quicker than I can with the blocks.

I thoroughly enjoy reloading, too ... it is very relaxing to me ... but sometimes I like to Go Slow and other times, a bit faster. It all depends upon what kind of reloading I am doing at the moment. I have found that the InlineFab Kit increases my Top End potential by about 50%.

 

[drband]

Nice post. I agree that it's great to be in the zone and not rushed.

 

[GBExpat]

I wanted to finish-off those 200 prepped cases (205, actually) so that I could breakdown the 9x19 + BE-86 setup.

I used 124gr RMR CP HPs (actual expanding HPs this time) with my 124gr-CopperPlate-Standard 5.8gr BE-86 load.

Not intending a speed trial, I just wanted to get these things finished so, after setting the seating depth, I glanced at the clock (why not? <shrug>) and started.

A couple of the Zone stretches were noticeably longer and things, generally, went smoother ... my muscle-memory is developing nicely. Also I managed to maintain my composure a bit better so the Safety Prime didn't spit any primers and it only experienced 2 misloads (my fault).

I finished the last cartridge at minute 39 (20 before the hour to 19 past), according to the clock.

I did produce one unusable cartridge in this batch (HIGH primer) so the total was 204.

One thing that I did notice is that the rotating seat on my stool (Craftsman shop stool, 2015 Xmas present from Sis & BIL) really helps to smooth the operation and minimize my torso stress. If I were still using my old, rigid stool I would probably be sore following one of these sessions.

I also think that if I arranged for a pre-selected music track rather than listening to the broadcast radio, I might reduce my Focus Failures Issues.

 

[splattergun]

One thing I have noticed in virtually every thread about a turret press where the subject of speed is mentioned, someone will inevitably post a comment that it is impossible to achieve a certain Round per Hour rate for X, Y or Z reason. But these posts all inevitably completely ignore or grossly underestimate just how much time is involved in handling components, particularly the time spent handling the brass! If each time a piece of brass is handled takes 4 or 5 seconds, those seconds add up to the amount of time that one can load several dozens of rounds.

I have run 200 rounds in one hour on my standard LCT and I used a Lee Perfect Powder measure on a powder-through die. It is not a pace I care to keep up with that setup. But it can be done. Now I have replaced the PPM with a Lee Auto Drum, and this new powder measure has removed the 3 or so seconds it took to pull the charge lever, and now a 200 RPH is almost a comfortable pace. I have no doubts that the case kicker could increase the RPH considerably.

Handling time matters folks.

Good post GBE

 

[GBExpat]

Thanks, splattergun.

I have noticed that one indication that I am Zoning is that I do not even look at the bullet or case trays to retrieve the items ... I am focused on the cartridge being assembled on top of the ram.

Even though I have already inspected the cases during the chamfer process, I will usually sneak a quick peek into the case in my hand while cycling thru the 4th station (where the assembled cartridge gets a kiss from the crimp die).

For me (and probably many/most of us) the weak link to any level of production mode (beyond Loading Block speed) has always been providing for a quick, consistent propellant drop.

Lee's PowderThru expander dies are wonderful, but the devices mounted on them can be troublesome.

I overcame this last year by adding a pair of cell phone vibrators to my AutoDiscs & AutoDiscPro. It was a major improvement over TapTapTap for every cartridge.

The arrival of the AutoDrum eliminated that minor (but mildly annoying to me) complexity since, so far, it has proven to be very accurate for me.

Not having to spend additional effort attending to powder measure or cartridge removal makes a big difference for me in production mode.

OTOH ...

If I am crafting Test Strings (or just going slow and savoring the process a bit more) I will probably continue to use my loading blocks, one of the AutoDiscs set to drop a bit light and trickle up to the desired throw-weight. .44spc & .44mag come to mind.

 

[Garage Dog]

No disrespect to anyone but I still do not understand why you guys want to add a kicker and reverse your LCT's. To get the exact same results production wise simply turn the shell holder to about 2 o'clock, grab an empty case with your left hand and push out the completed round and slip in the empty case in one smooth motion. I made a simple ramp for the completed round to slide down out of a plastic coffee container.
A few years ago I made a kicker for my LCT and it worked fine, but one day it hit me that there was no need for a kicker when your finger will do the exact same thing!
Again, I'm not ragging on anyone who like the reverse set up with a kicker, just pointing out another method.

 

[1KPerDay]

No disrespect to anyone but I still do not understand why you guys want to add a kicker and reverse your LCT's. To get the exact same results production wise simply turn the shell holder to about 2 o'clock, grab an empty case with your left hand and push out the completed round and slip in the empty case in one smooth motion. I made a simple ramp for the completed round to slide down out of a plastic coffee container.
A few years ago I made a kicker for my LCT and it worked fine, but one day it hit me that there was no need for a kicker when your finger will do the exact same thing!
Again, I'm not ragging on anyone who like the reverse set up with a kicker, just pointing out another method.

This is kind of what I do. I grab a case, grab the completed between the middle and first fingers of my left hand and palm it while inserting the new case in the shell holder, run the ram up and insert a primer using the safety prime (thumb on the safety prime thingy), THEN while priming that case with right hand/press handle, drop the completed round in the tray with my left hand and grab a new bullet just in time to place it over a charge. Very smooth and fast.

 

[horsemen61]

ttrl

 

[GBExpat]

detysyf

Garage Dog & 1KPerDay ... that sounds like an excellent alternate approach for folks to try before buying the InlineFab Kit.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I still do not understand why you guys want to add a kicker and reverse your LCT's. To get the exact same results production wise simply turn the shell holder to about 2 o'clock,

Almost, but not quite.

I don't load on a Lee LCT, but I have loaded on ones belonging to friends; both with and without the Inline Fabrication auto eject system. The one without also had a ramp attached to the edge of his bench to funnel completed rounds into a cone which dropped them into a bucket.

The auto eject system in noticeably faster and more importantly smoother.

It is like the difference between pulling head first into a driveway and making a 3-point turn and backing in

 

[RandyP]

NO offense taken. That's why that ice cream place sells all those flavors not just the ones I like.

If you get the chance to reload a few hundred rounds WITH the case kicker package installed? You won't wonder why we like it so much and will probably get one for yourself. Much like folks with a progressive press who add a bullet feeder or case feeder.

The Inline Fab assembly means Less fumbling around, less case handling, improved productivity if you want it, reasonable price.

 

[alexcue]

NO offense taken. That's why that ice cream place sells all those flavors not just the ones I like.

If you get the chance to reload a few hundred rounds WITH the case kicker package installed? You won't wonder why we like it so much and will probably get one for yourself. Much like folks with a progressive press who add a bullet feeder or case feeder.

The Inline Fab assembly means Less fumbling around, less case handling, improved productivity if you want it, reasonable price.

Agree completely... until you've tried it don't knock it! LOL

Seriously, that's the biggest plus to the system, less handling of the actual case. I also have mine mounted on the Lee Reloading stand which uses their bench plate system. So I didn't order the bracket. (I use Lee's bracket and bins) Saved myself some money, and once I had it tuned right, it works pretty darn good. It really speeds things up once you get that rhythm going.

 

[Damon555]

(and attitude and prepped cases)

I'm curious as to what a prepped case means in this context. Why would the cases already need to prepped? Shouldn't the idea be to load a case from start to finish on the press?...excluding tumbling to clean the cases.

 

[Rule3]

Nice report, I just can not load that fast. Been using a LCT for many years with many calibers, priming and powder drop on the press,

To me 200 is about the absolute max and that is going at a uncomfortable pace. Based on this report the case kicker increases production by a third??

I place my loaded rounds directly into the 50 or 100 round boxes.

You stated:

I retrieved 3 100ct MTM CaseGard boxes and transferred the 1stHalfHour cartridges into 2 of them; 152.

When I transferred the 2ndHalfHour cases, I found that I had not loaded 300 cases, but 302 because the total was 150.

How long or how much time did that take to load up the boxes??

 

[GBExpat]

I'm curious as to what a prepped case means in this context. Why would the cases already need to prepped? Shouldn't the idea be to load a case from start to finish on the press?...excluding tumbling to clean the cases.

"Prepped cases" as in cleaned & chamfered; i.e., ready to load.

 

[9mmepiphany]

How long or how much time did that take to load up the boxes??

This was an interesting enough question for me to go out in the garage to try. I did the test cold, just picking up loose 9x19mm rounds and placing them in a plastic covered box. I didn't really race the clock (shot timer), just grab and insert

Transferring loaded rounds from a tray into a 100 round box took 94 seconds

Transferring loaded rounds into a Shock Bottle case gauge took a little longer 103 seconds, but then they were all gauged and could be inverted into a box.

So case gauging 100 rounds, checking primers, and boxing them would take under 3 minutes...1k rounds in about 30 minutes

 

[GBExpat]

Thanks, Rule3.

... To me 200 is about the absolute max and that is going at a uncomfortable pace. Based on this report the case kicker increases production by a third?? ...

Going from 200 to 300 represents a 50%, not 33%, increase.

... How long or how much time did that take to load up the boxes??

To move 300 9x19 from two piles into 3 MTM Case-Gards? <shrug> Perhaps 3-4 minutes?

 

[Rule3]

Thanks, Rule3.

Going from 200 to 300 represents a 50%, not 33%, increase.

To move 300 9x19 from two piles into 3 MTM Case-Gards? <shrug> Perhaps 3-4 minutes?

Yes, it does. My Bad.

Perhaps? 3-4 min?? We must have actual elapsed time.

 

[GBExpat]

... Perhaps? 3-4 min?? We must have actual elapsed time.

Hahaha ...

Aaaaaahhh, I see that 9mmepiphany's attention to detail has dipped me in it.

I went downstairs, put the 300 rounds back into the two bins, started the timer and transferred the cartridges from the bins to the MTMs.

Time: 4:54

Since I was only trying to fill the boxes and not use them to count the 2 batches of cartridges (which makes the operation a little bit slower, but not much), my box-filling efforts after the Reloading Speed Test was, perhaps, closer to 6 minutes than the 5 it took this morning.

[silly]

... BUT ...​

... this exercise raises another very important question; do 9mmepiphany's freakishly small hands (as I think I recall him describing them a couple of years ago) have him manipulating cartridges more or less quickly than I with my glove-size-L/G hands.
[/silly]