Turret Press Question

[Skgreen]

What is the difference between an Indexing Turret and a Progressive?

The number of handle-pulls you have to make to complete a round of ammunition is probably the biggest difference.

As always, there may be exceptions/qualifiers***, so 'In general',,,,,

In general, a Self-Indexing Turret is basically a single stage press that incorporates a rotating die assembly that advances to the next die when the main operating handle is cycled.

In general, a Turret press is basically a single stage press that incorporates a rotating die assembly that only advances when you physically move the die assembly, regardless of how many times the main operating handle is cycled.

In general, a Progressive is basically a single stage press with special shell holders capable of holding multiple rounds on top of the ram. It does not incorporate a rotating die assembly, but instead incorporates a rotating shell holder assembly. Shell holder assembly advances 1 station every time the main operating handle is cycled.

*** I consider the press shown in the link below to also be a Progressive, but it has neither a (traditional Home-Reloader type) rotating shell holder nor a rotating die assembly. Heck, I don't see an operating handle either!!

http://ammoload.com/mark-lv-loading-machine/

 

[ATLDave]

Another way of explaining the difference between an indexing turret and a progressive is that the turret is only putting one case into a die per stroke, while a true progressive has multiple cases in dies at a time. My 650 has one case in a sizing field, one case in an expanding/powder drop die, one case in a seating die, and one case in a crimp die at the top of each stroke. No die is idle on any stroke.

In contrast, my LCT only holds one case in one shellholder, and presents it to each die in turn. On any stroke, there is only one die working on a case.

 

[FROGO207]

I use a RCBS turret press. I like to take my time and batch load as well. So I have a universal decapper, a Hornaday Cam Loc puller, a CH4D ram prime body, and my 223 dies in it at all times. Then I will use the other hole as a single stage press and batch load what ever I am working on at the moment. Screwing a set of dies in and out as needed is no big deal in the grand plan. Reloading is not like stopping at the pit and having a crew go as fast as they can to finish a batch of ammo. I would just use a Dillon if that were the case.
ETA: I have been thinking about getting another turret so I can use it to mount my second most used die set (38 SPL) and additional seating dies. But I am in no particular rush though.

 

[kmw1954]

I think you've phrased the question in such a way that you'll never get a clear answer. Lee has muddied the water so much by calling their very popular Auto Progressing Tool Head press a "turret" that no one in the hobby is clear as to what a "turret press" is anymore.

I don't see were any confusion comes from. A Turret is a Turret whether it auto indexes or manually indexed. Makes no difference if it is a reloading press, drill press or a lathe. The basic principal is still the same. After I discharged from the USAF I went to work in a machine shop setting up and running both Auto indexing Turret lathes and manually indexing Turret lathes.

 

[Eddy19]

Thanks all, much appreciate all the replies! My second time around to shooting and reloading, things have changed a lot, getting older too. Way back when, in the 90's, I practically lived at the range, was a range officer so had the keys to the club and in exchange for range upkeep, I was able to do unlimited shooting so was at the range 4 days a week, not including weekend matches. Was heavily into High power and USPSA matches at two different clubs. Would come home with a bag of at least 500 ACP cases a week and rifle on top of that. Had to get progressive presses. Not anymore, I'm finding 150-200 pistol rounds once or twice a week comfortable nowadays. So, have the progressives but do everything on a RCBS single stage, and putting more care and detail into each step of loading, cleaning primer pockets, case trimming, working up and trying different loads, etc. So the turret would be mostly just something else to play (I am a gadget freak...haha!) with and no indexing is what I'd prefer.

 

[Varminterror]

How you choose to operate your turret press is up to you and what you feel makes sense in your process.

A turret press can always beat a single stage press for speed because it reduces case manipulations and die manipulations. Some silly folks will shout that a single stage and a turret press require the same number of ram strokes. However, ram strokes are fast. Removing and replacing cases in and out of the press takes a lot of time. At their worst, a turret press operated as a single stage would match speed with a single stage. When operated as a turret press, especially for no-from handgun rounds, a turret runs away with much higher production rates.

The Lee Auto-Indexing Turret Presses can be used as manually indexing, whereas other brands which are manual only cannot be made to auto index. Having both features is well worth it to me, in most applications. As an example - I load my ammo for my precision 6 creed AR-10 on my turret press. I decap on a universal decapping press, then after cleaning, I auto-index between a bushing die and a mandrel expander, priming between. I then trim the batch, and when I go back, I remove the auto indexing rod and seat bullets as a single stage. The first two steps in the process run quickly, as I can reach for the next case while my other hand is committed to cycling the press. No swapping dies, no in-and-out with the case. I load revolver cartridges on the same press in almost the opposite fashion. I size and prime in one full stroke with the auto-index disabled, pull off of the press to trim, then auto-index through belling & charging, seating, and crimping in 3 quick strokes.

Never as fast as a progressive, but more versatile, and never as slow as a single stage in my processes. Turrets are convenient tools.

 

[ATLDave]

Some silly folks will shout that a single stage and a turret press require the same number of ram strokes. However, ram strokes are fast. Removing and replacing cases in and out of the press takes a lot of time.

Yep. To me, the point of a turret is to eliminate case handling.

 

[rfwobbly]

It's clear to me; Lee has the only turrets...because theirs are the only ones that auto-index, The Lyman, RCBS, etc turrets are just single stage presses with a lot of holes.

Actually, I'm perfectly fine with this !! My hat's off to any American company that can come up with something new that Americans want, and then put Americans to work providing it. I am not a Lee user, but I will staunchly defend what Lee has accomplished.

Just take a look at this thread... almost every responder is discussing this question in terms of the Lee LCT. The Lee product is so wildly successful that the average reloader doesn't even know what a "T7" is.

So maybe we should come up with a new name for Redding and Lyman to use.

 

[Eddy19]

Actually my first progressive back in the day was a Lee Pro 1000 with the AutoDisk, still have it today and works great, it got me through the IPSC years and has cranked out many thousands of 45 ACP and 9mm rounds. Admittedly, I had to "tweak" some things but after that, great and fast. And, it was very affordable back then as it is today.

 

[ATLDave]

Just take a look at this thread... almost every responder is discussing this question in terms of the Lee LCT. The Lee product is so wildly successful that the average reloader doesn't even know what a "T7" is.

I know what a T7 is. I just can't fathom why I would want one. It's not a knock on the quality (which, I'm sure, is excellent). I just don't understand the point of a turret press that doesn't auto index. Why would you not want that, especially since it can be "turned off"? Those higher-end, yet de-featured, turrets don't cost much less than a progressive. And they aren't going to offer the same speed advantage over a single stage that an auto-advancing turret would.

I'm not saying people who like them are wrong. I am saying that I literally do not understand the attraction.

 

[kmw1954]

Yep. To me, the point of a turret is to eliminate case handling.

That's what I stated back in post 14. I find it much easier to work up new loads in this turret press than it is in my Pro1000, not that it can't be done because I have done it. It is just a royal pain to try and do in a progressive press.

I now also have a turret head set up with 3 different Lee Bullet Sizing/Lube dies for sizing .356, .358 and .452"... Just drop it in, change shell holders and away I fly.

 

[RealGun]

I would remove the auto index rod from my Lee Classic turret only if I didn't have a single stage with its own dedicated dies and unique settings. My single stage has a Hornady LnL bushing adapter. Rather than stress about having to reset dies continually I just buy another set. But staying within the turret's capabilities would certainly be more economical, perhaps as a starting point, specializing from there.

 

[rfwobbly]

I know what a T7 is. I just can't fathom why I would want one. I just don't understand the point of a turret press that doesn't auto index. [snip] I'm not saying people who like them are wrong. I am saying that I literally do not understand the attraction.

Ah ! You are looking at them with the wrong glasses, my friend. You need to wear your '1990 glasses' to understand. They are a holdover from the late 80's, before pistols were the preferred firearm to reload, and before progressives had been perfected.

They are basically a high-end single-stage. Their "advantage" was not speed or higher output, but rather convenience. They offered the guy that did 2 or 3 calibers a way to leave his dies in the press and the convenience of not having to re-adjust his dies when he was ready to reload. It was seen as a big step up from the basic Rock Chucker.

In the late 80's I was reloading only 223, 243 and 9mm Luger. I would have thought it was Heaven to have one of these. Constantly screwing dies in and out of my press really got old. Especially when you get the next die positioned, and found 3 cases on the floor you had missed. Reloading back then was fun, but filled with tiny exasperations which the Lyman and Redding units tried to address.

Hope this clears things up.