Twenty Bore: General Purpose

[sm]

I am a believer in the 20 gauge shotgun being a great general purpose shotgun.
I am not the only one, I assure you.

20 gauge shotguns tote easy in fields, will fell game from quail to deer, break any clay on a skeet field and allow to shoot not only the 20 ga event , also the 12 ga event in skeet.

I personally just use 2 3/4" shells, in everything , except in .410, where the
2 1/2" shell is used 99% of the time by me.

I grew up around all sorts of firearms, including shotguns of all gauges, and the 20 gauge protected homes, property, felled quail, ducks, geese, bear, deer, and of course rabbits and squirrels.

Single shot, O/U, SxS, pump, or semi-auto, will still do today, as they always have.
It is the user of a tool, not the tool itself ,that effectively and efficiently takes care of a task.

Another thing I believe in is a bigger person can effectively use a smaller shotgun, where a smaller person cannot.

Often times I also share the truism "the best kept secret is a 20 ga skeet gun", referring to a semi auto such as a Win 1400, Beretta 303, 390, 391, Rem 1100 in this respect.

Same applies to other platforms in 20 ga. used in skeet, or other clay sports.

Yes, I know of real life situations where a bone stock 20 ga 1100, 1400 have stopped an immediate threat.

I know too many folks, including couples, and families, where the Home/Business shotgun is a 20 ga.

One family, the dad is 6'3, mom is 5'4, teenager daughter 5'1, and grandma has shrunk to 5'2.
There are multiples of the same bone stock 20 ga, with youth stocks.
This family shoots together, and this includes hunting, property duty, clays and serious lessons.

Dad and mom have the most experience, grandma technically does as she competed and hunted forever, just does not do as much as she did, and the teenage gal, is learning real fast!

Tossing clays akin to low 7, except lower, all members were breaking targets.
Using slugs.
Consistently I might add.

There are some great buys on 20 gauge guns, especially with those with only 2 3/4" chambers.
Not to mention some folks buy a gun to hunt a season and sell it, and then next season buy another gun.
Add Tax season is upon us and Divorce Season starts in May around here.

Just a post to share some thoughts and plant some seeds is all...

 

[Dave McCracken]

Good post, Steve. Agreed on most points.

I recently read an article in an old Double Gun Journal about a guy that used a 175 year old flintlock fowler to take both partridge and elk. It was a 20, of course.

 

[3/325]

Twenty is plenty.

 

[PJR]

I am not enthusiastic about the 20 gauge. Compared to the 12 it's main benefit is a lighter gun but one that often recoils as much as the larger gauge because the gun is light.

In ammo selection the 20 isn't as versatile. Non-tox isn't as available nor as good as what's around in 12 particularly the steel. Buckshot loads are most often to limited #3 compared to the wider variety of 12. 20 gauge slugs are pretty good but rifled barrels and sabots are pretty much a 12 gauge proposition. For waterfowl, deer and when things go bump in the night I'd rather have a 12.

For skeet and close range clays it's fine but having shot a three barrel skeet set (20, 28, .410) for a couple of years I concluded that when compared to the 28 gauge the only thing that the 20 gave me was more recoil. Scores didn't differ.

I am also wary of the potential for a 12/20 burst. I came very close to having one while hosting some guests at the club who wanted to learn about shooting. When the gun went "click" I was about put in a shell figuring I'd forgotten to load in the excitment. I'd been shooting 12 and 20 and at the last minute I instead chose to tip the gun up and tap the butt on the concrete pad. The sight and sound of that 20 gauge shell popping out of the chamber and on to the ground is not one I'll soon forget. Incidentally, it is also possible to have a 20/28 burst if you load a 28 gauge shell into a 20.

I sold my remaining 20 gauge gun last year and now own 12 and 28 gauge only. I don't miss the 20 gauge. I believe for general purpose the 12 gauge is still the best choice and for sheer shotgunning delight nothing beats the 28.

Paul

 

[ArmedBear]

I'm not sure I'd call the 20 an all-purpose gun, though in the field I seldom carry anything else. The 12 is really versatile, but versatile doesn't always mean "the best for the task." The 20 often is the best for the task.

It's the 28 that doesn't interest me so much, since it seems a lot of 28 Gauge guns are built on 20 Gauge frames anyway, and I can load 3/4 oz in a 20 Gauge hull too, if I want to. The ridiculous price of 28 factory ammo means I would be shooting mostly handloads, not factory shells, in a 28.

But if I'm going to load them myself, the 20 will cover all the bases a 28 will, and a lot more. If I want low recoil, I'll load for low recoil; there's no reason that 28 Gauge has noticeably lower recoil than 20, for a given load.

 

[sm]

Paul,
I appreciate your input and I even agree with some of your points.
You and others know my stance on the 28 gauge.

Everyone.
Being serious.

Raised in the era I was and mentored by the folks I was, shape what I am and my belief system.

I am really concerned as my mentors were and have been been vigilant ever since in regard to Freedom.

We used to order a firearm , including a shotgun and have it delivered to our door by the Postman C.O.D.

Mentors had experiences in regard to restrictions of civilians having what Police or Military had abroad in regard to make and ammunition.
i.e Police/Military are issued 9mm or .380, civilians could not have these calibers.

Take a look what has occurred in the world in regard to restrictions with guns, ammunition and knives.

If...and may it never occur...US civilians are restricted in having what Police/Military use, that would mean 12 gauge and right off the bat the 870 could not be legally owned, used, by civilians.

A lot of these restrictions we have, all through history come about because of Perceptions of users of tools.
i.e Black AR is evil.
Heck for sensationalism - everything today is black, evil , assault, arsenal, hi-cap...
It does not matter if true, first impressions stick in minds and law abiding get hurt and it does not matter one iota to criminals.

Repeating shotguns and magazine capacity has often been scrutinized by politicians and antis - in how the various legislations are worded and interpreted.

Twenty bore I happen to like , and I understand it has limits and all, still if matters go south , it would be a good idea to have a twenty bore , bone stock, set back to be "legal" if the 12 bore became off limits to civilians.

28 gauge, oh heck yeah! I know what it can and cannot do, including with 28 ga slugs.
.410 - again, I know the pros, cons, and limits.

I am attempting to plant some seeds, one being the 20 bore being a general purpose shotgun.
Another being for folks to continue to fight to preserve freedom and this includes acting like a responsible firearm owner and not aiding and abetting Tyranny by acting like a damn fool...if I may be so blunt.

History is great teacher and Internet now affords one greater and faster communications. Use it.
Take a look at by doing searches as to how our members on THR in the UK and say New Zealand got in the fix they are in.

Ireland, last time I checked, restricts civilians to an minimum barrel length of 24".

How many have shared on THR alone, their gun club restricts them in using barrels at least 23" long?

Connect the dots, do the research, learn from history and ...continue to fight to preserve Freedom.

It is up to you whether you choose to get a 20 ga, left bone stock or not.
Maybe a 28 gauge, and take a look in regard to loadings, including slugs.
Setting back primers and other reloading supplies...



Steve

 

[mugs79]

I'm going to be totally honest here.

I love, love reading posts from sm.

But, frankly, I have to disagree with this one.

I've shot 12 gauges. Never a 20, never a 28 or a .410, or even a 16 or a 10.

Only 12.

I've fired a dozen or so magnum shells at ducks in a single afternoon.

I've fired dozens upon dozens of 2 3/4 inch shells against my shoulder at clays, in the course of a few hours.

As a male, I stand at 5'7." Hundreds of shells fired at clays left a bruise. But not one that bad. More in a good, satisfied type of bruise.

You'll forgive me if I have a hard time understanding the recoil type arguments against the 12 gauge. It's all I've ever known. Yes, after a time, it starts to hurt...

But only after a long time.

I'd rather have too much gauge against my shoulder, than not enough.

Hell with 20 gauge. I'm perfectly content abusing my shoulder with 12 gauge.

 

[ArmedBear]

It's not about shoulder abuse. I hunt with a guy who has your attitude: 12 Gauge is the only shotgun he wants. His response to any gun, even a nice little upland O/U is, "That looks nice! Do they make it in 12 Gauge?" He wants to get his wife a 20, though. I don't get it.

I bring a 20 Gauge with 2 shots, he brings a 12 with 3, and I almost always have more birds in my bag than he does when we go home, even though, at the range, he scores better. Lately I have had the only non-empty bag on some sparse days. The quick little 20 just plain works better for almost anything but waterfowl, regulation trap disciplines, and clays shooting where you have to reach way out there and swing slow and smooth.

Now I just bought a 12 that's well-balanced and lighter than my old clunkers; I really like the feel of the thing. It might work better for hunting than other 12s I've used. But really, it's all about how fast you want to shoulder and swing the gun. Sometimes, slower and smoother will bring down more birds, sometimes quicker will. It can really limit one's success, though, to refuse to look beyond 12 Gauge in the field.

 

[TrapperReady]

To tell the truth, 20ga is the one I use the least*; however, it is a very versatile option. For breaking clays, a 7/8oz 20ga load is fine for all but the longest of shots. For shooting birds, a 20ga is (IMO) just about perfect for anything shy of geese or pass-shooting.

Ammo is readily available, though not in as many different loadings as 12ga. It's certainly easier to buy a box of 20ga at a gas station than it it is 28ga or 16ga. Cheaper too.

20ga guns can be perfect for smaller statured shooters (typically kids and women). I've got a youth model 391 20ga which I use mostly for instruction. It's lightweight, seems to fit a wide range of smaller shooters and doesn't have too much in the way of felt recoil.

BTW, a lightweight 20ga can have every bit as much felt recoil (or more) than a 12ga. For example, my 20ga Benelli M1 Field weighs probably 6.5 lbs. My 12ga Kolar weighs 9.5 lbs. The recoil is "worse" with the 20ga in that comparison.

One thing to remember with younger/smaller shooters is that recoil often isn't the main problem. The overall weight plays a big part in how comfortable the shooter is with respect to handling the gun. Recoil, as long as you're talking about target loads, is more of a secondary issue to fit and the ability to hold the gun up for a while. I've worked with a number of young shooters, and more often than not, their fatigue comes from simply holding the gun up... not from recoil.

* FWIW, I don't use 20ga much because I tend to use a bunch of different shotguns for different puposes. As my collection has grown and I've worked out what I like for specific tasks, my 20ga guns have been edged out by other choices. If I could have only one gun/gauge, then I would be pretty comfortable with either 20ga or 12ga.

 

[PJR]

Attitude is a funny thing and it can cut both ways.

A few years ago I was hunting with a man who criticized my light 12 gauge sxs. His firmly held view was the 12 gauge was overkill for the preserve pheasants we were chasing that day.

After he downed a bird I picked up his discarded hull. It was a 20 gauge, 3" magnum, 1-1/4 ounce load of #5. Meanwhile in my gun there was a 1 ounce load of #6 in the right barrel and a 1-1/8 ounce load of #6 in the left. I guess "overkill" is just a state of mind.

As for the 28 gauge, it is a very specific cartridge with limited use. It's an indulgence but a very pleasant one.

 

[TrapperReady]

overkill for the preserve pheasants

Arghhh!! IMO, there isn't such a thing as overkill. If you can shoot a bird and kill it humanely, that's the ideal. However, it is entirely possible to have "underkill". Sometimes you'll have small-gauge fans take shots outside the effective range of their guns (although that can and does happen with 12ga as well).

The only real problem I see is if someone is shooting very heavy loads and blows the bird up at close range. Most of my pheasant shooting is done with either a 12ga or 16ga with full choke and 1 1/8 - 1 1/4 oz od hard #5 lead. I let them get out to 30 yards or so before I shoot.

BTW, my favorite all-around upland load is 1 oz of #7 (not #7.5) shot. It tends to pattern very well and will kill most any bird from doves to pheasants without tearing them up too badly. On pheasants, I just make sure to keep the shots inside 35 yards and only shoot if I can see the heads. If I'm ONLY hunting pheasants, then #5 shot is preferred.

 

[41magsnub]

20ga is definitely overkill!!! As a boy of 12 my dad and I went on a combo antelope, duck, pheasant hunt. We brought along a buddy of mine who had never hunted or even fired a gun before. We pull up to an overlook over a valley and see a stock pond completely full of ducks and there was a ditch starting a couple of hundred feet away going right up to the edge of the pond.

Dad sends the two of us down the ditch towards the ducks thinking there is no way we will get close enough to the ducks and will just tire ourselves out which is good for him. My buddy is carrying my 20 ga with a youth stock and the improved cylinder choke, i have my dad's 12ga wingmaster which was much too long for me.

We get to the edge of the pond still in the ditch and get ready, then charge over like a couple of dough boys crossing no mans land. I pick out one duck and drop it, then jam the shotgun because I short pumped it. My buddy takes one hail Mary shot into the flock with the 20ga and drops 4 ducks , none of which were dead just wing hits.

Based on this one incident I can say 20ga is overpowered and should be illegal for hunting!

 

[sm]

Safety

It's not about shoulder abuse.

Armed Bear and others around here will understand and have seen what I mean by Safety and use of gauges less than 12 gauge.

First off Americans have this "bigger is better attitude" stereotype by others around the world.
Payload to bore ratio and w-a-y back when the Brits determined 11/16 oz payload from a 12 bore was ideal.
Rule of 96. Six pound gun shoots a 11/16 oz in a gun that fits shooter best due to less perceived recoil.

To the Brits, 1/18 was/is a heavy load [standard skeet/trap load in the US) and 1 1/4 oz a magnum load.

~~ Safety

Shotgunners that shoot up to 50,000 rds a year, for years and years have safety concerns.

The human body is designed to protect itself.
Release triggers come to be to assist those after high round counts, their body said "when he/she slaps that trigger - there is recoil" and flinching started.
The shooter never flinched before, they learned to shoot correctly it was the human body protecting that shooter.

Detached Retinas do occur, as does neck and backs -"protecting" the human body or - after hundreds of thousands of round, have been abused and punished.

Everyone's body is different, and these "wearing down" of body parts are not age dependent.
Young folks with less round counts suffer these various concerns.

Add, life is hard and just accidents in life detach retinas, injure necks, backs, knees, hips...

~~ Common Sense

28 gauge is the most effective payload to bore - Period.

Coming up as is true today, not everyone will buy a 28 gauge, nor will they invest in reloading 28 guage.

28 gauge is what I and others prefer to teach new shotgun users with.
While we prefer a 28 ga on a 28 ga frame, the Rule of 96 assists with a 28 ga load from a 20 ga frame.

Some of these shooters are smaller framed, and a huge deal is not letting the student get hurt.
Correct basic fundamentals are best learned with less felt recoil as well.

Prevention if will.

Time passes and 100k, 200k, 300k, etc round are shot and the person is down.
Doctors Orders! NO recoil!
Detached Retina, neck, back, and other damage, and the like.

IF...if the person recovers, and Doctor Approves, these persons can shoot again, some are restricted to .410, others to 28 gauge.

One reason "short course" trap, 5 stand, sporting clays come to be, skeet is already easy to shoot with a 28 gauge.

Not to mention with neck, back, hip, knee, surgeries and walking, and carrying anything - like a shotgun can be tough, and lighter shotguns that tote easier, just makes sense.
Especially when toting is going to done more than shooting.

20 gauge standard load is 7/8oz
28 gauge standard load is 3/4 oz

Twenty bore.
We downloaded from 7/8 oz to 3/4 oz loads to have less perceived recoil from a 20 ga shotgun, w-a-y back when, for not only smaller sized/framed folks, also to prevent injury in anyone, and for the older folks as well.

Not everyone has a 28 ga, would/ will buy one, get a reloading set up...they would and did do 20 bore from extra lite to heavier.

20 gauge in a single shot shotguns what I and others have suggested forever
instead of 12 ga.

28 is a real darn nice single shot!
Known instructors use 28 ga single shots for instructions for not only kids, small framed persons, also those getting back into shooting with injuries.
Correct basic fundamentals and O/U will come later.

20 gauge again does not have the load offerings a 12 does still more off the shelf than 28 in many areas.

Payload.
Standard is 1200 fps for target loads, all 4 gauges in skeet are 1200 fps standard. Ditto for trap and other clay games. Many hunting loads are as well.
Super lite and similar run 1145 fps.

Recall the "bigger is better" attitude?

WE did back in the day what Brister shared in his book.
Tickled us to no end.

Patterns boards do not lie, and moving pattern boards tell more of the truth!

We backed down 20 ga loads, the 3/4 oz loads, and got better patterns, and shorter shot strings.
Best recall we had these running 1050 -1100 fps

Essentially a soft 28 ga out of a 20 bore.
Killed ducks with this load we did!
Before this stupid non-tox bit on waterfowl, WE used 28 ga shotguns.
20 ga with 3/4 loads too!

Way back when we saw on pattern boards, and really on moving pattern board how the 3" shells and heavier loading were blowing patterns an ineffective.

3.5" shells come to be and some of these really blow a pattern!

Shells and components improved, such as wads, still bigger is not always better and preventive damage to a body or being able to shoot again after damages.

I am mine really really like it when a person has rinky dink 2 3/4" 20 ga shotgun and they "have to have" a tactical shotgun or skybuster for doves, ducks - whatever - because a 20 gauge is so rinky dink.

Toss the $135 down and walk off with a 1400, or 1100.
$35 for a two year old H&R topper 20 bore as 20 bore sucks, and they "have to" whack off a barrel on a 12 bore.
$150 for a 311, as they "had to have" mag extensions and side saddles.


One young lady had detached retina, shoulder and knee surgery and wanted to learn shotguns.
I/we started slow with Doctor, and Physical Therapists.

Time heals, and she is a shotgunner, not someone that owns a shotgun.
There is a difference.

 

[bofe954]

I agree in theory, but it just seems like 12 gauges are more common and less expensive and the ammo is more common and less expensive. I haven't been lucky enough to start pheasant/bird hunting yet, maybe then.

I also haven't totally convinced my wife that shotguns/rifles are like golf clubs and that you really need several of each to do things correctly.

SM- I bought a used copy of Brister when I bought my 525, because of your posts. Really interesting read, I wish it had a little more about steel shot but I guess it is a little old for that.

 

[sm]

12 gauge:
No doubt this is the most versatile gauge.
Ammunition can be had anywhere, and this includes down here in the South, being available in bait shops, hardware stores, gas stations and drug stores.
Some places still have a coffee can with loose shells, grab a few and done.

Advances in hulls, shot, powder, wads and primer, have increase the effectiveness of all shot shells, including 12 ga of course.

Decline in shells have also occurred, as business practices have declined, therefore quality and service of all products have declined.

It is not about us the consumer, instead them the mfg.

One can download a 12 ga to 28 ga 3/4 payloads, and quite effective.
In the early days when I and others were messing around with all of this, the idea of increasing fps, was "wrong", as we were getting blown patterns - even with hard shot.

Then Int'l Skeet and Int'l Trap, were decreasing allowed payloads [24 gr] and increasing velocities!
Advances in components is what allowed this to occur.

Again, my concerns come from perspectives of being restricted in owning 12 ga guns, Safety for new shooter and those with Physical limits, and Budgets.

$500.00 is a lot of money to some.
$1200.00 is really a lot of money to some.

Each person is different in tools for task, still my contention is how important the user of a tool is, versus the tool itself.
I miss low 5 with a $65,000 custom gun, I have done so.
I can miss the same low 5 with a $25 pawn shop .410 single shot.

I'm talented, I can miss with anything! I have experience! *wink*

Pride of ownership - I have no problem with, where I get a bit negative about is the attitude of some owners of certain makes and models.
These folks exhibit the same behavioral attitudes with other items and makes and models - some folks are just this way.

2 3/4" chamber will do 95% of what folks will use a 12 ga shotgun for.
So will standard mag capacity.

$500 will get one an Older Used Quality made shotgun, with metallurgy , craftsmanship, and quality control , with a 2 3/4" chamber, such as Win, Rem, Ithaca or Mossberg.

Larry and I found him a older 870 in 28 ga in Tulsa one year for $500 or a bit less ( forget).
I wanted the Win model 12 in 28 gauge, just I was $4,799.00 shy of the $4,800.00 price tag.

$500 has bought a good used quality shotgun as mentioned, a used single stag reloader, with some components, and still monies to get Eyes, Ears, shooting pouch, range time...

$1,200.00...back up the truck, I have purchased quite a bit of shotguns and related shotgun stuff for $1200.

Reality is-
All my life have being doing this "role" I do.
$500?
No way!
The lady has been beaten, battered, assaulted, sexually assaulted, raped...
add a kid(s) and $50 is a helluva lot of money!

20 ga single shot from the Mom&Pop Gun store, Pawn Shop, Yard Sale, for less than $50, sometimes donated, and I have gotten a lady (anyone) up to speed in 15 minutes on using that gun to stay safe.
Money?
No, gave these to these folks.
Not there has not been times we have looked for one for someone, but the emergency needs...no money. Human life is at stake here.

Biased I am on my perspectives, I admit this.
I am a product of the era I was raised in, what was going on in the world, mentors, and my moral law.

It just does not hurt to have a 20 bore stuck back -

 

[waterhouse]

My thoughts on the 20:

I can afford more than one shotgun. I own several. If I could only own 1, it would be a 20. Why?

It's lightweight and I enjoy hunting with it. I've walked with a 12, 16, 20. The 20 is lighter, and the pocketful of shells is lighter. That's the activity I really like doing with my shotguns . . . walking behind dogs for quail or pheasant or woodcock or shooting doves as they pass by.

So the 20 does 90% of what I actually use my shotguns for on a regular basis, and it does it well. I'm guessing a 28 would do all of those things well too, but shells are pricey and . . . if called upon, I could use the 20 for things I now use 12 ga. for . . . I wouldn't feel bad using a 20 in a duck blind, or for slug use on deer, or for HD.

Plus, to me, 20s just look nicer than their bigger brothers

 

[distra]

Personally, I prefer the 20ga to 12ga for shooting clays even with light 12ga loads. My 1100 20ga and Browning Citori 20ga both are light easy swinging guns. I'm not a great skeet shooter, but for getting started the 20ga is great, IMHO. I know a lot folks shooting 28ga and they love it. I'll probably get 28ga tubes for my Browning someday. Not knocking the 12ga I just prefer to break clays with the 20. My wife prefers the 20ga over 12ga due to reduced recoil. To each his own.

 

[birdbustr]

If you are happy with your hit/miss percentages on any game with the 20 gauge, then that's great. If all you can handle is a 20 gauge, I understand that point also.

I've always used a 12 gauge since the age of 12 and I've always been happy with my percentages. I've also had a 20 gauge at my disposal since that age and I now own that 20 gauge shotgun as well. The only reason I don't use it much is due to the 26" IC barrel on this shotgun doesn't push a pattern much past 30 yards reliably. For rabbits with dogs or just kicking around the woods, I still reach for the 20 on rare occasions. If I got a invector choke barrel for the 20, maybe I would use it more, but I am still very happy with my 12 gauge shotguns, so I won't fix what isn't broken.

Does the 12 gauge have space for more pellets in a load, and therefore giving you more likelihood of a hit, yes it does and I don't see how that could be argued. But that could go on to the 3" 12 gauge is more likely, and the 3 1/2" is more likely, and then the 10 gauge is more likely, and so on.

If your 20 gives you results you are happy with, good for you, but I'm a 12 gauge man and I have shot them all in the field except for a 28 gauge. I can carry my 12 gauge shotguns and shoot them all day and it doesn't bother me, my shoulder or my back. The other guy using a 20 gauge doesn't bother me either, but "different strokes for different folks".

 

[3/325]

I'm not a sport shooter or a hunter. Nothing wrong with either of those, I simply have other interests when it comes to having fun. I tend to look at firearms in a purely practical light. There are thresholds in the categories of reliability, versatility, and effectiveness, and both the 12ga and 20ga stand in the "good" zone on each when considering the products of reputable manufacturers. I'll take either one and be satisfied.

 

[axeman_g]

16g is the real general purpose round

 

[41magsnub]

16g is the real general purpose round

until you can't find ammo for it!

 

[TFin04]

I'm a firm believer in the 20 as well.

I have a nice O/U I use for the clay range, and a set of Briley subgauge tubes for it. I find myself shooting the 20 ga tubes more and more. Same price, same relative performance and recoil is about half that of 12 (in my heavy range gun).

Likewise, I enjoy a 20ga SXS for upland hunting. Plenty of power, lightweight gun. Recoil is stout. I wouldn't call it "bad" but for hunting where you probably shoot less than a box over the course of a few hours, it's just fine.

I shoot the 12 on the sporting clays course because I don't have the right chokes for my 20. Once I remedy that, I will give the 20ga a go there as well.

 

[Bud Tugly]

The pellets come out of the end of the barrel at pretty much the same speed regardless of gauge. The only difference is the number of pellets you put in the air.

If you're shooting at targets or game 40-50 yards away and more then you need lots of pellets since the pattern thins out with distance, but at closer range it's just overkill. It only takes a few pellet strikes to break a clay target or kill most small game, so the smaller gauges throw more than enough lead to be effective inside of 25-30 yards.

I've killed hundreds of grouse, rabbits, squirrels, and woodcock with a 20 gauge and .410. Their lightness makes them easy to carry and quick to shoulder and I've outshot lots of buddies with 12 gauges, especially hunting heavy cover. Shots in those situations are almost never over 25 yards.

The only time you really need a 12 gauge is when you will be making extremely long shots. The 12 is definitely the most versatile gauge, but in some situations the smaller gauges are not only adequate but actually superior to a 12.

 

[Oldnamvet]

And then theres me -- 3/4 or 7/8 oz loads in 12 gauge. Semi-auto and limbsaver. Hardly feel it go off at all. Pattern is good and clays break if I don't choke and shoot behind them. For hunting, I go up to 1 or 1 1/8oz of #5. Brings them down just fine.

Steve, you sure have a talent for getting people "talking". Next time make some comments about synthetic vs walnut vs beech gun stocks. With your style, it would be sure to stir the pot.

 

[sm]

Oldnamvet,

I have a method to my rebel ways.

Just wait until this bunch reads about the 24 gauge and 32 gauge.
Works of art that are such great shotguns.

Folks cannot borrow your shells, as your 24 ga or 32 ga shells will not fit their guns, be they 12, 20, 16,28 or .410.

If one tosses another a 24 ga, or 32 ga shell as they ask to see what loads you are shooting, they get baffled and miss the clay or bird, affording one with the 24 ga or 32 ga to fell targets.


...just a little brain salad surgery - Dr. Hook

*grin*