Twenty Bore: General Purpose

[ArmedBear]

16g is the real general purpose round

The 16 Gauge has been overtaken by technology. When Beretta offers an all-steel, well balanced 28" 12 Gauge O/U that comes in just under 7 lb., Benelli makes reliable semiautos at about that weight too, and others have introduced alloy-frame light field O/U's that weigh a good deal less than that, there's no reason to get a 16.

If every gun was like the hilariously named Citori Lightning or the 11-87 Sportsman, and weighed 8 1/8 lb. for a standard 28" 12 Gauge field gun, maybe there'd be a reason to get a 16 still. Fortunately, they're not, and there are plenty of guns that "carry like a 20" used to, but really DO "shoot like a 12".

That said, I still like my little SKB 20 for bird hunting. It's just the right weight, length, balance, size and swing speed.

 

[axeman_g]

All people who doubt the 16g will feel my wrath...MaaaaHaanananahahahaha


I am the original 16gaugefanboy!!!!!!!!!

I should change my nickname.

As for finding shells... I look upon shopping for 16g shells as an extension of the hunting season.

 

[birdbustr]

Hold up BUD: SUPERIOR. I don't think so.
To each his own. Do whatever feels best and fills your bag. True, shoot what you want.
All of the reasons given here are extremely subjective to the individual. How did this get to be a 20 gauge is the best thread anyway. To say a 20 gauge is ever superior than a 12 is pure BS. A 20 gauge may do just as well and save you a little lead and recoil, sure. No matter how you slice it you can always load down a 12 gauge load, but loading up a 20 gauge to equal a 12 is extremely limited to the low ball 12 loads only. How can 200 pellets from a 20 gauge ever be superior to 300 pellets of the same size, out of the same length barrel and out of the same choke ever be "superior". Maybe if you consider a 2 pellet kill better than a 4 pellet kill. It might not tear up your game quite as bad, but either way just as dead. A 20 gauge is a good multi purpose round, but so is the 12 gauge.

 

[TrapperReady]

I've got more guns in 16ga than in any other except 12ga. Most of the pheasant shooting I've done this year has been with an Ithaca 37 in 16ga, and all of my grouse hunting is with a 16ga Model 12.

If there is a disadvantage with those guns compared to their 12ga counterparts, I can't think of one, except for availability of ammo. Even then, it's not hard, just a little more expensive.

I don't think that 16ga is quantifiably better than 12ga or 20ga, but I do like it. Perhaps it appeals to my slightly contrarian nature.

 

[Dave McCracken]

The 7/8 oz loads I use copiously in my 12 gauges duplicate typical 20 gauge loads. They break clays at ridiculous ranges when I do my part. They worked well on doves at up to 45 yards.

A 20 can be loaded up, but not as well or as easily as loading down a 12. Whether that's important is an open question.

 

[TrapperReady]

Oldnamvet - You're not the only one here who knows the benefit of light loads in a 12ga. Now that I've returned to reloading, I am loading everything but hunting loads at 7/8oz. They make the perfect practice loads, breaking targets well out to 40+ yards and having very little recoil.

I'm committed to practicing entirely with 7/8oz reloads for this season, and have duplicated my standard competition load (1 oz of #7.5 or #8 at 1300 fps), except with a bit less lead and recoil. Since I switched a month ago, my scores have remained steady and I can honestly say that any misses I've had were not the result of fewer pellets.

I've yet to find a recipe that I really like for 12ga 3/4oz loads, but I'm still experimenting.

 

[Bud Tugly]

When hunting thick cover for small game you generally either get a quick shot or none at all. That's the situation where the lighter gun is superior to a heavier one. Of course not all 20's are lighter than all 12's, but in general there is an advantage of 1/2 to 3/4 lb to the 20 (and even more for the 28 and .410) in a given platform.

For more open terrain where shots are longer and speed is less critical that advantage disappears, and that's where the versatility of the 12 shines.

 

[sm]

Yeller

-Twenty bore shells come in yeller.
-Easier to see shells, like when dropped.
-Goes well with Case Yellow handled knives with Chrome Vanadium Blades I use.
-Old Yeller is a great movie.

-And Damn! You should see the long legged , good looking babe that drives a Yeller Ferrari [Yeller Mustang when dressing down] that shoots a 20 bore!
And I do mean shoot!

I win.

*neener*

 

[goon]

sm - I'm kind of leaning toward your philosophy. At least in part.

I'll always have the 12 gauge for HD work and applications where I just need a bigger piece of lead but I have been thinking lately that the 20 gauge has a lot going for it. I'd like to get a little NEF single barrel someday.

 

[sm]

Serious.

My reason for posting was a serious one in regard to thinking out of the box if restrictions were to be imposed, affordable guns for folks on a budget, what a greater percentage of shooters actually use a shotgun for ...etc

 

[ArmedBear]

I've got more guns in 16ga than in any other except 12ga. Most of the pheasant shooting I've done this year has been with an Ithaca 37 in 16ga, and all of my grouse hunting is with a 16ga Model 12.

I think that the Models 37 and 12 are probably closest to perfect in 16 Gauge. That may, however, be more a function of those particular gun designs than something that can be applied to other firearms.

 

[TrapperReady]

I think that the Models 37 and 12 are probably closest to perfect in 16 Gauge.

I would agree. They are just a it lighter than their 12ga counterparts, but carry enough weight to not seem whippy. Both guns carry great and shoot well. Besides, 16ga seems just about perfect for generating great patterns with 1 oz or 7/8 oz shells... which are my favorite for general use.

Unfortunately, 16ga sits right between 12ga and 20ga... rmaking it seem redundant too people unfamiliar with it.

BTW, one of my others is a 16ga Browning Auto 5 (not a Sweet Sixteen). It's actually built on a 12ga frame, but it's a lot of fun also.

 

[PJR]

I have a partial 16 gauge. My sxs is built on a 16 gauge frame. The barrels however are 2-3/4" 12 gauge. Tips the scales at 6-1/2" pounds. The best of both worlds.

 

[JohnBT]

Being raised around a 20 ga. Model 12, I think the 20 ga. is a fine choice. My father had one with a full choke, but with today's ammo I'd want an IC or MOD.

I'll stop now, before I retell the story about the 3 of them killing the bear with birdshot.

John

 

[axeman_g]

Trappeready might by the original 16gfanboy....

I am always out with my SweetSixteen.. it is the gun I grap for 90% of the hunting I do and when I add deer to my list this fall I will take it then also.

 

[TrapperReady]

Dr. Strangegauge - Or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the 16ga

ACT ONE - Takes place at a local retail sporting goods store

Me: Hey, that old A5 is in decent shape and the wood is beautiful! Who cares if it's in 16 gauge! Let me start filling out the forms.

Later that same day...

Me: Hmm... That proof mark says "65". I hadn't noticed that when I bought it.

Still later...

Me: So a 65mm chamber is actually 2 9/16" and it won't take normal 2 3/4" ammo?

Expert: Correct. You'll need to get a bunch of work done to have it converted or buy short shells.

Me calling Westley Richards: I'll take two flats of 16 gauge 2 1/2" shells.

A couple days later...

Me: I love this gun!

ACT TWO - Takes place at a different local sporting goods store

Me: Wow! A 16 gauge Model 12 for under $200?! It's kind of a beater, but mechanically sound and has short chambers; however, I've got a bunch of 2 1/2" shells at home. I'll take it!

ACT THREE - Takes place at a friend's house

Friend: I've got a bunch of 16 gauge ammo that's been sitting around here for probably 20 years, and nothing to shoot it in? Do you want it for free?

Me: Sure. Thanks!

The next day...

Me: Hmm... The free ammo is all 2 3/4" shells, and they won't work in the guns I've got.

ACT FOUR - Takes place at yet another sporting goods store

Me: They'll work in this Ithaca!!! I'll take it.

ACT FIVE - Montage (even Rocky had a montage)

Cut between a bunch of hunting scenes, showing the guns being used for grouse, woodcock, pheasant and dove.

Fade out to a happy ending...

Lot's of room for sequels.

 

[sm]

TrapperReady,

Semi-worthless dawg.

You forgot Semi-worthless dawg in this play.

I "are" so disappointed...*sniff*...

*grin*

 

[ArmedBear]

Unfortunately, 16ga sits right between 12ga and 20ga... rmaking it seem redundant too people unfamiliar with it.

Again, now that there are many quality 12's that have balance and weight characteristics like the old 16's, the 16 may not be redundant, per se. But there's no good argument that can be made for buying a new one, either. 7/8 and 1 oz. loads pattern extremely well from a 12 Gauge.

An old 16 wouldn't be a good replacement for my little 20, either.

I understand the love people have for the old guns and the 16 that worked so well in them. However, I still don't think the 16 is poised for any kind of comeback; modern gun designs have changed things a bit, and pump guns are playing in a different court now. The shotgun market supports my assertion.

 

[Bud Tugly]

Look at how many different calibers there are for rifles and handguns. It would be a shame to see shotgun gauges disappear when each has advantages.

 

[TrapperReady]

I guess I view the 16ga kind of like the .41 Magnum or the .35 Whelen. It's good... very good. However, there's too much competition from other calibers/gauges. There's ammo available, but not a wide variety, so that's one strike. The second strike is that most modern guns (like the horrible 16ga Remington 870 of a few years ago) were apparent afterthoughts. The third and final strike is that there is no support for the 16ga in competition.

However, while I don't see 16ga growing, I do see it maintaining. There are lots of wonderful old guns available; often at a discount over 12ga or 20ga versions. Also, due to folks spreading the word on the Internet, some people are learning just how good these guns are for upland hunting.

 

[ArmedBear]

Trapper, what does a modern 16 offer the upland hunter when guns like the 686, 105 CTi, 391, Cordoba, and others have weight and balance like the old 16s, but in 12 Gauge?

I can see getting an old 16, but current offerings wouldn't make much sense, especially since a lot of people who don't have the "more is better" mentality already have adopted 20s and even 28s where appropriate.

 

[sm]

16 gauge was not around my parts coming up.
Mentors said it did well in Pheasant country, no pheasant were I was raised or am now.

Duck hunting is what we have, so 12 and 20s used
Plus 28 gauge. Lots and lots of ducks fell to 28 gauge. Some areas and private, with invite only, one could not use anything but a 28 ga or .410 for ducks, it was that special a spot.
Applied to quail, doves and small game too.

16 ga fits the Rule of 96 really really well!

"They gots pheasants and and we gots ducks; they gets 16s and we gets 12s, just how tools for tasks work out in this country of ours" Mentors

Now folks would come in to hunt ducks, bring 16s and they worked great on ducks and geese, everything else too, even skeet and trap.
Folks over the years moving in, brought 16s they had, and it was non-tox shot regs for waterfowl that had these folks get 12s.

Lever action 30-30 is used heavily here still for deer as well. Oh we have bolt guns, and open areas, just the deer are mostly harvested in thicker brush and close shots.

Location and tool for task again.

My only gripe with 16s - is me not paying attention and in reloading getting a 16 ga hull stuck on the 12 deprime stage.

Just be rocking along, snagging hulls from those policed and run into a batch and get stuck.

I have a PhD in this, trust me, I worked hard to earn that PhD.

*grin*

 

[TrapperReady]

ArmedBear - In my opinion, a well-made 16ga is just about the perfect compromise of payload and weight for most upland birds. I tend to find 20ga shotguns (of which I've got a few... new and old) to be almost too light. I have to actually shoot them a little differently, and really concentrate on keeping the barrels moving through the shot. 12ga guns, while extremely versatile and effective, tend to weigh a bit more than a properly scaled 16ga. It's not a bunch, but just enough to make carrying a 16ga just a bit easier.

For example, when I'm grouse hunting, the shooting window is very, very short. You basically have to always be ready to shoot. My 12ga guns tend to be very tiring to carry. The 20ga guns are lighter, but I tend to not shoot them quite as well, especially on crossing birds. The 16ga seems to be "just right".

I agree with you that modern 16ga guns tend to be somewhat lacking. The abomination that Remington came out with a few years ago was essentially a 12ga, except with a smaller hole in the barrel. It seemed like the outside diameter remained the same, so the gun weighed MORE than the 12ga. While it should have felt more nimble, the smaller gauge gun was a pig.

Now, a lightweight 12ga does have a lot going for it. A couple years ago, I came very close to picking up a Guerini Magnus Light 12ga for pheasant hunting. The thing weighed about what I'd expect a 20ga to, or less. Frankly, I think that PJR's 12ga on a 16ga frame sounds great.

One nice thing about a 16ga...

The shells fit tightly in vests with elastic shell loops. Often 20ga shells are too loose and can fall out.

Oh, and don't forget that the "more is better" crowd infects the 20ga and 28ga community as well. The 3" 20ga magnum loads and the 1oz 28ga hunting loads are pretty common... and awful in my opinion. Take a lightweight, sweet shooting, good patterning gun and turn it into a hard kicking, crappy patterning mess. No thanks!

BTW, one of my dream guns is a 16gax16gax30-30 drilling. A stag engraving on the bottom of the action, with grouse on one side and woodcock on the other. 25" barrels with a Greener action. Yeah, that would just about do it.

 

[ArmedBear]

I agree with you that modern 16ga guns tend to be somewhat lacking. The abomination that Remington came out with a few years ago was essentially a 12ga, except with a smaller hole in the barrel. It seemed like the outside diameter remained the same, so the gun weighed MORE than the 12ga. While it should have felt more nimble, the smaller gauge gun was a pig.

True of all too many 28's, also.

Now, a lightweight 12ga does have a lot going for it. A couple years ago, I came very close to picking up a Guerini Magnus Light 12ga for pheasant hunting. The thing weighed about what I'd expect a 20ga to, or less.

A Magnus Light weighs a good deal less than steel-frame 20 Gauge O/U's do. That's why I don't find it hard to adjust from my 12 to my 20; the 20 is lighter, but it's not toothpick-light. There's not that much room in between a 686 field gun in 12 and a steel-receiver 20 Gauge O/U; I can't see buying another gun with problematic ammo, just because it's in between 6.6 and 6.9 lb.

There's a whole spectrum of gun weights available. Even just in 12 Gauge, between the Citori Lightning at 8.1 lb. and the Franchis at 6.2 and Guerinis at 5.9, there are Rugers, other Brownings, Berettas, etc.

(Can you tell I just spent a bunch of time researching a shotgun purchase?)

Final caveat: I've all but given up on anything but O/Us for bird hunting. We have a 3-shot limit here; I'd rather have the handling of an O/U, and two different chokes, than a pump or semiauto.

 

[TrapperReady]

ArmedBear - If someone is dead-set on buying a new gun, then I'd be hard-pressed to recommend a 16ga... regardless of the purpose. Old guns are another story altogether, as I think there are a bunch of good buys out there, based on properly sized actions.

FWIW, my ideas on hunting guns has shifted a bit. I had gone through a stage where I liked smaller, lighter guns. However, since I've been shooting a 9.5 lb Kolar for a year and a half, truly light guns just don't swing right anymore. I can do it (I still love my Model 42), but for it to be second nature (as in hunting), it's just not right. I think it's one reason I really like the 16ga guns I use. They're lighter for carrying, but have just enough weight to handle normally.

I think my favorite thing is shooting the .410 tubes in the Kolar. A .410 in a 9.5 lb custom-fit gun is giggle producing. I'll pull the trigger, the gun doesn't really move, and then the target breaks. The only downside is shooting a .410 event and then hustling to go shoot a 12ga event right afterwards (often a 5-stand or prelim). The first couple of pairs make a 1oz 12ga load feel like a sledgehammer.

One last thing about 16ga compared to 20ga. I prefer blue to yellow.