Two Q's from a soon to be AR or AK buyer...

[appaws]

Hey, I just wanted to ask a couple of questions to all of you rifle experts.

1. First, could someone explain to a rifle noob the situation with different bullet weights in .223 and the "twist" of the barrels...? There are some you can't use if your barrel has a certain ratio...? I am confused as hell after reading about this topic. I want to make sure I understand what I am buying if I choose a .223 AR

2. Should I be considering 5.45 rifles as well? I see some very nice ones at my local fun store, like S&W, etc....and I see a lot of fairly cheap ammo around...(at least compared to 5.56 and 7.69). Is this a viable alternative?

3. Is $1000 bucks out of line for an Arsenal AK. They seem very well made, but I thought the point of AKs was to be a cheap "peasant gun."

BTW, I want a rifle for fun/plinking, shtf scenarios, and perhaps 3-gun competition down the line.

 

[benzy2]

1. The longer a bullet is the faster the twist in the barrel needs to be. Bullet weight tends to be a fairly direct relationship to length so the heavier the bullet the faster the twist of the rifling needs to be in the barrel. A lot of ARs are 1 in 9 twist which means the rifling makes one full rotation in 9 inches of barrel. a 1 in 7 twist is twisting faster as it only takes 7 inches of barrel to make a complete turn and in a 16" or 20" barrel you will be spinning at higher RPMs than a 1:9 twist. 1:9 will run up to about a 69gr bullet. A 1:8 will run 75gr bullets and a 1:7 will run just about everything out there. Ideally you buy just enough twist to stabilize the bullet and keep it spinning true. If you over spin a bullet the extra friction of spinning the bullet faster slows it down and you won't get quite the same velocities. If you really spin light bullets fast you can have the jackets rip off of them in flight. As long as you don't push lighter bullets too fast you can typically shoot them out of a faster twist barrel without much issue. If you shoot heavier bullets out of a slower twist barrel they won't spin fast enough to get them to stabilize and when they hit the target they will be coming in tumbling instead of tip first.

2. 5.45 is a good question. Right now ammo is fairly abundant and inexpensive. If you are looking for a blaster it will be a ton of fun. Who knows what will be available tomorrow but that goes for all rounds. If you can afford to stock up on a few years worth of ammo I think it would be a good call. That way even if ammo gets harder to find you will be sitting pretty.

 

[takhtakaal]

5.45 at $120 per tin with free shipping was a no-brainer. Now that it's closer to $160, plus shipping, while it's still cheaper, it isn't inexpensive. I would suggest that you only do 5.45 if you're willing to buy enough to bottom out the bed of your pickup truck, just in case we never see it again from foreign shores. The other thing to remember is that the best ammo will leave behind salts that attract crazy amounts of moisture. You must clean up after yourself, or suffer the consequences.

Arsenal generally makes decent rifles, even if they did go through a patch of QC issues. Only certain rifles are really worth a premium, and these tend to be discontinued ones, especially the milled ones. While AKs were designed to be run by a peasant, that doesn't mean that they need to be made of inferior materials or with less than careful workmanship.

I might suggest, instead, getting a dedicated AR upper in 5.45 from S&W. Apparently, the bugs have been worked out. and I'm told that people have successfully run 5.45 in 5.56 magazines, although dedicated 5.45 ones are available. It would mean less bulk and learning only one manual of arms, on the AR-15 platform.

 

[briansmithwins]

As to the Arsenal rifles, they are very well made and use new parts. I paid $850 about 18 months ago for my SLR107FR and consider it money well spent. $1k now is actually a pretty good deal.

My AK did have a problem with the sight. Arsenal repaired it and had it back to me in 2 weeks. BSW

 

[paradox998]

Thanks for the explaination on barrel twist and weight. This is one of the best explainations I have read.

 

[gga357]

1:8 or 1:7 are your best choices.

 

[chris in va]

If you just want something to plink around with, go with a Saiga for (now) $400 and convert it to your liking for around $200. It'll save wads of cash over those $$$ Arsenals.

Here's my basic conversion. All told, cost me $450 when the gun was $300.

 

[appaws]

OK, This brings me to another question. The fun store I go to has a couple Saiga .223 rifles and 12-gauge shotguns.

What is all this about Saiga's and "converting" them. What are they now and what is it they have to be converted to?

 

[maskedman504]

Saiga rifles come from the factory in a sporter configuration. The Saiga the Chris posted has been converted to a pistol grip configuration. In order for the rifle to accept a pistol grip, the trigger group must be moved forward (closer to the mag-well). Below is a picture of my Saiga 12 pre-conversion.

 

[benEzra]

I thought the point of AKs was to be a cheap "peasant gun."

No, AK's are fine rifles in their own right. That they used to also be inexpensive was a bonus.

 

[H2O MAN]

3. Is $1000 bucks out of line for an Arsenal AK. They seem very well made, but I thought the point of AKs was to be a cheap "peasant gun."

BTW, I want a rifle for fun/plinking, shtf scenarios, and perhaps 3-gun competition down the line.

I highly recommend a pre ban Chinese 7.62 AKM (Poly Tech or Norinco)

This is my is my cheap Norinco "peasant gun"

BTW, I sold off all of my AR kit in favor of my T56SHTF and M14s.


.

 

[Voodoo1951]

Arsenal Milled AK's are EXCELLENT Rifles. I bought my SAM-7 about 3 years ago for $749 + Tax and I just saw one go on Gunboker for $2,300. Thats almost 3x original price. If you can get one for a Grand, JUMP ON IT...!!! On the other hand, you can buy a WASR-10 for about $5-600 And they are good rifles. I know alot of crap has been written on the net about them but as long as you check them out first (lots of info on the net) They are pretty good guns. Prolly the most widley used battle rifle on the planet. Just watch the nightly news and you will see what I'm talking about...